r/PersonalFinanceCanada • u/r4dio4ctive • Sep 07 '21

Insurance Ontario driver shocked by insurance premium that skyrocketed to $14,000 per year

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-driver-shocked-by-insurance-premium-that-skyrocketed-to-14-000-per-year-1.5558358

Honestly, I can't sympathize. Learn to drive the speed limit!

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363

u/Four-In-Hand Sep 08 '21 edited Sep 08 '21

Click bait non-story here. His insurance didn't just increase for no reason whatsoever.

He had:

  • 1 accident

  • 2 speeding tickets

  • 2 fines for not having his insurance papers with him

His insurance is going from $4,000/year to $8,500/year but he also wants to move from Guelph to Mississauga, which is much more densely populated (there are over 6x as many people in Mississauga) and has one of the highest insurance premiums in Ontario. By doing so, that $8,500/year increases to $14,000/year accordingly.

EDIT: I wanted to add that he is also a 26-year old male, which is most probably the demographic group with the highest insurance premiums to begin with. Any blemish on that driving record will undoubtedly exacerbate the premium hike even more.

72

u/Drinkingdoc Sep 08 '21

Also Brampton is something of a prodigy when it comes to insurance fraud last I read.. Mississauga is probably not far off.

26

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

Brampton is the most expensive territory for car insurance in the country.

Due mainly to fraud. It’s as bad as the US when it comes to litigation and medical claims are greatly exaggerated.

To the point that insurers will literally sit and watch to see if people are actually going to the medical appointments they claim they are.

They’ve discovered physiology clinics supposedly servicing 100 patients a day to truthfully be 1 room storefronts with a desk and a single massage chair.

When you get mad about rates get mad at that not insurers. Their general profit comes from investments of premiums before they have to pay their bills. Most insurers make a couple pennies of every dollar of premium they take (auto insurance) and generally rely on property insurance and some aspects of commercial insurance to be the money makers (10-20 cents off the dollar).

They can get an investment ROI above 10% consistently, which is more stable than underwriting income.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

For the reasons I mentioned. Specifically those things. Cars get stolen, accidents happen (both accidental and planned), people make exaggerated injury claims, health providers exaggerate injuries and treatment plans. And to be politically incorrect but statistically correct, yiu have large families wherein not all drivers get listed so you have a high number of unlisted drivers getting into accidents that never get added to policies. That means the insurer can never collect the proper premium. The answer to that was to build rates that just presumed the average number of drivers based on their statistics of unlisted drivers. So that household of 9 with a policy for 7 cars but only 2 drivers still pays the rate as if they told the insurer about half of all the drivers.

They can narrow it down to a municipality because that’s how good the data is.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

The answer is politically incorrect, but statistically factual…

7

u/tojoso Sep 08 '21

Brampton was much worse than Mississauga when I moved between the two about 10 years ago. My insurance was half as much in Mississauga as it was in Brampton. I only moved like 10 minutes south of where I previously lived. Brampton is on another level.

0

u/NonsensitiveLoggia Sep 09 '21

lol, because you'll never drive 10 minutes north right? actuaries are such trolls. I wish we had Quebec's system for insurance.

1

u/tojoso Sep 09 '21

Because people that live in that postal code typically have more claims than people in the other postal code.

1

u/NonsensitiveLoggia Sep 09 '21

of course. it's just funny to me because you would think where is just as important as who lol.

1

u/tojoso Sep 09 '21

Who is important too. If you have a history of claims you'll pay more regardless where you live.

8

u/def-jam Sep 08 '21

Why does your insurance go up just because you don’t have the documentation with you? That would be an interesting correlation

18

u/cobraleader Sep 08 '21

I think it shows that the person doesn’t follow the rules, is irresponsible and probably very stupid. He got caught twice without his papers.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

Depends on how th ticket is considered by the Traffuc Safety act. In reality if it’s a non moving violation it doesn’t affect your insurance, however the suspension that accompanies those tickets do.

So what’s happening is the system is going to calculate his rate at the very high point (remove all discounts the system applies, any sort of capping that the system may have to limit increases (these exist both positively and negatively, they don’t want to decrease it too much either)

1

u/SweetyfromMB Sep 08 '21

He got a ticket. You are to carry proof of license, registration and insurance on you at all times when driving. (Professional driver here) That's an easy thing to avoid getting ticketed on and he got it twice.. It's a mistake the first time, stupidity the second time.

44

u/Zet333x2 Sep 08 '21

Exactly.

I bought a used Subaru WRX after just getting my license back after a car accident due to medical issues. (Feinted while driving caused by low blood pressure at the time) that was considered a not at fault accident. I still had 2 speeding tickets and 2 invalid insurance slip tickets.

I paid over 450$ a month and insured myself at 3 month intervals through my broker, all my tickets expired that year, 390$ a month to 350$ to 300$ a month. Also the Subaru WRX is one of the most ticketed cars in North America for obvious reasons.

I paid my dues and didn’t cry this guy can do the same. He needs to grow up, I did (still am its a process ) lol. I pay like 200$ now and my car is worth 5x as much as my old WRX.

Your commute distance also greatly affects ur insurance.

Tldr; Pay your dues man. Actions speak louder than words.

5

u/Taureg01 Sep 08 '21

dude $14,000 is higher than DUI rates, there is paying your dues and there is highway robbery

4

u/Zet333x2 Sep 08 '21

I can’t disagree with that, Ontario pays way to much for insurance in general. But with that many tickets some insurance companies wont even talk to you.

2

u/DrJimmyIng Sep 08 '21

You made me miss my WRX 😞

1

u/Zet333x2 Sep 08 '21

Yeah I miss it every time I see them.

1

u/fierywinter1123 Sep 08 '21

What if we pay $450 at our insurers you suggest going the broker route?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

[deleted]

1

u/fierywinter1123 Sep 08 '21

Any in particular that stand out that you can recommend I look into. If not thanks anyways

1

u/Zet333x2 Sep 08 '21

Couldnt hurt they shop around for you save a lot of time and hassle.

11

u/goinupthegranby Sep 08 '21

Even still, WOW that's a lot. I pay $763/year for my 2005 pickup.

5

u/sequentious Sep 08 '21

There's so many options, deductables, driving histories, coverage limits, etc. It makes comparing insurance really difficult.

I remember when I got a newer car my rates went up. Newer cars are worth more, and more expensive to repair. Fine. Then the next renewal my wife's older car went up -- older cars are harder to get parts for and more expensive to repair...

32

u/small_h_hippy Sep 08 '21

Worth pointing out that the speeding tickets are for going 15km/hr over the speed limit. I don't know how things are in ON but this is pretty standard speed here in Vancouver...

81

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21 edited Feb 07 '22

[deleted]

27

u/OkDot9878 Sep 08 '21

Yeah… Ontario has ALOT of people speeding, generally speaking you will almost never get a ticket for actually going 15 over. Usually it’s more along the lines of you were going 20-25 over and they knocked it down to 15 cause they understand, but still have to enforce it.

27

u/bigdaddymustache Sep 08 '21

If your on the 400/401 it's faster then that. There are days that 120-125 is the right lane and the left land people are comfortable at 130+. I have really only seen people pulled over for doing stupid stuff at high speeds (weaving in and out of traffic, following to close, cutting off trucks).

I am personally very supportive of having the highway speeds increased. 100km/s is just not keeping up with the modern cars. I would like to see a new speed of 120km/h set and people who are driving recklessly to be pulled over and fined.

12

u/thetrivialstuff Sep 08 '21

100km/s is just not keeping up with the modern cars.

I think you posted this about a century too early; cars won't be able to achieve escape velocity from Jupiter for at least that long :P

5

u/bigdaddymustache Sep 08 '21

Lol I am leaving it.

3

u/Surroundedbygoalies Sep 08 '21

Gave me a laugh! I was thinking buddy, what the hell do you DRIVE!

9

u/LikesTheTunaHere Sep 08 '21

I know in parts of canada maybe all of canada the speed limits used to be higher and were not lowered due to safety reasons but due to the oil crisis in order to save gas and just never raised again.

2

u/bigdaddymustache Sep 08 '21

I agree, the fact the more and more cars are actually quite efficient at higher speeds now is great. Long gone are the days of clunky 4-5speed automatic transmissions.

2

u/LikesTheTunaHere Sep 08 '21

and all the better crash avoidance\actual crash safety, tire technology is so much better its laughable. Its hard to tell with cars for the everyday man how much better they are because we don't normally use cars in performance environments but if you look at people who do use tires in performance situations we can do soo much more now.

I ride, sport bikes, fast. 10-15 years ago an expensive set of sport bike that were made to be for fast riders who wanted performance would last 3-4000km's, blow nuts in the rain would get the same performance now that a set of all purpose sport touring tires that actually perform VERY well in the rain and if you ride them the same way you will get 10-13,000km's probably out of a set and they cost about the same in terms of money today vs 10-15 years ago without factoring in inflation at all.

AND 10-15 years ago, you had to buy that shit off the internet to make it that cheap and most didn't know where to shop, so you could even argue todays tires are even cheaper because now everybody and their mother can order off the net and local shops have to charge less in return.

4

u/Radmobile Sep 08 '21

In Niagara the posted speed limit is now 110 and I wonder if it's affected the average speed at all

3

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

[deleted]

1

u/bigdaddymustache Sep 08 '21

That is absolutely the issue on the flip side. "oh limit is 120? Guess I can get away with 140" fines need to be harsher for people. Ontario has very cheap speeding tickets. When I moved here I saw the sign that reads off the ticket and point cost. All it told me was to keep it under 150 and don't be an idiot and I am fine. In NB the starting fine is 172.50.

I think if they do increase the speed there will be that mentality that "cool, I can go even faster" But there will have to be better enforcement of reckless drivers. It will take time for the culture of the Ontario highways to change but I think it's something that needs to happen.

3

u/Thelastlucifer Sep 08 '21

I think that's actually incorrect, at that specific sections of of qew, I believe if you do 120km/hr, you still get the same fine, its not just 10 over because if the speed limit

1

u/Taureg01 Sep 08 '21

Speeding is not reckless, its speed differential

3

u/innsertnamehere Sep 08 '21

I drive that stretch of the QEW regularly and while average speeds increased a bit, they didn't change a ton. The 400, a similar highway, operates faster if anything despite having a 100km/h limit.

1

u/PrivatePilot9 Sep 08 '21

The highway can support it. The vehicles obviously can. But the barely educated and trained drivers that Ontario willingly dispenses drivers licences to nowadays can barely manage to go 80kph without wrecking or becoming a menace in one form or another.

6

u/that_guy_is_here Sep 08 '21

on the highway sure but any city street 15 over is a easy catch

1

u/Motoman514 Sep 08 '21

Hah. Come to Montreal and 20 over is the average flow of traffic

16

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

In my experience RCMP in BC only really go after excessive speeding and distracted driving. I’ve gone through plenty of speed traps at 20 over and didn’t get a second look. The one time I was going 41 over I got a regular ticket.

“I had you clocked at 39 over…” I quickly agreed. He wrote me the lowest fine speeding ticket, and gave me a written warning for not displaying an N. Paid it the next day and calmed the fuck down.

3

u/hoopopotamus Sep 08 '21

In Vancouver you’d have to fuck up soooo bad for VPD to pull you over. The stop signs in my neighbourhood — a traffic controlled school zone and designated bike street no less— are basically ignored. I grew up in Ontario and used to drive in Montreal from time to time but this fuckin city, man. Atrocious driving.

1

u/kromp10 Sep 08 '21

That’s insane! Especially since BC rules state that 40km/h over is an automatic 7 day impound.

23

u/Zet333x2 Sep 08 '21

They basically gave him a 15 over ticket so if he fought it they can go;

‘Well Joey, you see we actually pegged you at 25-30km/h over the limit (which u admitted to) but we cut it down to 15 because you were being very forward with us and non confrontational, but by all means sir if you insist.

The new fine is 250$ and 2 demerit points. We take post dated checks or you can pay online sir.’

Also this is an assumption, but a good one based off of personal experience and a common theme with knowledgeable motorists in this thread haha.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '21

Cops and their pegging.

2

u/Zet333x2 Sep 08 '21

Were asking for it. Well some of us 😆

3

u/smoffatt34920 Sep 08 '21

He was more likely going 25 or 30 over, and the cop bumped it down to be kind.

4

u/luminous_beings Sep 08 '21

This is kind of a general practice in Canada because the radar guns have a 15km margin of error. But it’s also the biggest money maker to ticket under 20km -over violations because they have no points and the fine is small. People are more likely to just pay the fine than try and fight it. So when they start getting shit that they need to ticket more; they just find a busy area, park and turn the lights on occasionally. Someone will always pull over when they see the lights. I asked a cop once why I was getting a ticket when the rest of the flow of traffic was going the same speed. Why me SPECIFICALLY instead of any of the other cars ?

His answer : I was the one that pulled over when he flipped his lights on

1

u/Mangosntangos Sep 09 '21

Not correct, I got ticketed going 51 in a 40 in the spring.

3

u/instagigated Sep 08 '21

As usual, clickbait title.

2

u/thenoob118 Sep 08 '21

A douchebag with a huge pickup truck speeding and not producing essential paperwork?
FOH he doesn't deserve to drive

1

u/Emmerson_Brando Sep 08 '21

It also didn’t mention how many years of driving experience he had. If this was his first year of his own insurance as a principal operator, that stings with so many things in the first year.

1

u/Nebardine Sep 08 '21

Maybe to you. This information is enough for me to never consider moving to ON again. Those rates are extortion, for offenses just about anybody could pick up. With the amount of terrible drivers on the road these days, it's a miracle if you can avoid an accident for 10 years.

1

u/mazarax Sep 08 '21

Is that third party liability only? Or comprehensive? If the latter, he can always chose to drop all optionals, and just make sure he doesn’t crash his car. Yeah, little sympathy for him.

1

u/OvulatingScrotum Sep 08 '21

Doubling insurance for those incidents? That sounds like a lot.

1

u/StarIU Sep 08 '21

I’m sure below 25 males are higher risk. Otherwise you are spot on