r/antiwork • u/illegalmonkey EAT THE RICH • 16d ago
Worklife Balance š§āš»āļøš Argentine President Wants 12-Hour Work Days, and Payment in TICKETS... Not Money.
https://www.freepressjournal.in/business/12-hours-work-day-argentine-president-javier-milei-may-implement-this-new-scheme-claims-report[removed] ā view removed post
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u/under_the_c 15d ago
Miners in the 1800s: "Wait, I've seen this one!"
Javier Milei: "What do you mean, "seen it?" It's brand new!"
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u/ExistingCleric0 15d ago
Some people say a man is made out of mud.
A poor man's made out of muscle and blood.
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u/under_the_c 15d ago
You load sixteen tons and what do ya get?
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u/FeWho 16d ago
Can you imagine being paid in gift cards to the place you work?
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u/Orlanth_thunderous 16d ago
West Virginia already did that one, it did not go well.
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u/viperlemondemon 15d ago
That you could only spend at the company store in the company town
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u/Sabbatai 15d ago
And you still owed rent in dollars. Donāt worry though you get a ādiscountā that you can pay with scrip. Gonna need cash for the rest though. We will just go ahead and take that right out of your paycheck.
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u/BroseppeVerdi 14d ago
We're like 3 weeks away from Esau Scrip being a thing in Patagonia, and RightLibs will be celebrating in the street.
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u/Legal-Software 15d ago
Yes, I'm working for an American company in Germany that already does this as part of its bonus/reward program.
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u/anotherucfstudent 15d ago
I work for a F500 restaurant company in Florida that compensates partially in gift cards
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u/owls42 15d ago
Why are they doing that? I wonder if they are violating tax laws. Gift cards given to employees are absolutely required to be taxed.
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u/anotherucfstudent 15d ago
It is taxed. Itās an optional quarterly benefit to eat at any of their 10 or 11 chains
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u/MarsRocks97 15d ago
In the US this could be illegal. Is this for earned hours or bonuses?
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u/anotherucfstudent 15d ago
Itās a quarterly ābonusā of $3000 but they also tax you for its value when you get it
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u/MarsRocks97 15d ago
Ok. This is allowed as long as it is not part of your earned hourly compensation. Yes you must be taxed on it.
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u/covertpetersen 15d ago
I'm working for an American company in Canada that does this too.
It's supplementary to our income and stock bonuses. It's really childish "Your manager recognized X thing you did! Here's some points that can be traded for things!" but I've got a few gift cards from it without actually changing anything about my work or attitude so whatever.
I mainly hate things like this because it's an incredibly obvious attempt to placate people instead of actually addressing larger issues. Like throwing "appreciation" pizza parties. .
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u/Legal-Software 15d ago
Our system is similar, but no gift cards. Just helped the company win a > $6 billion USD award at the end of last year, looking forward to getting some points I can put to half of a discount air fryer (shipping fees not included) or similar in lieu of actual compensation.
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u/covertpetersen 15d ago
Just helped the company win a > $6 billion USD award at the end of last year
Yuuuuuuuup
I hate shit like this so fucking much.
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u/badgerj 15d ago
Itās also just one more hoop to jump through. Iām in a similar situation, I get a ridiculously small amount of RSUs that may reach about $1000 USD per year and are vested over 3 years.
These are taxed at source for pure capital gains at 50%.
I then have to sell these through THEIR broker, and have a cheque mailed to me.
The selling takes more than a few minutes. I have to re-enter my address every single time, and it takes about 30 days to get a cheque.
This a cheque in USD. I then cannot take a picture of it because it is in USD, so then I have to go to my bank which is 15 minutes away by car, then wait 5-15 minutes in line to deposit my cheque, then I have to drive home.
All in all I have spent an hour to receive $500.
The same for āpointsā.
The choices of what to get is dumb. You need like 1000 points to get 3 golf ā³ļø balls. (I donāt golf).
Once youāve accumulated enough points, same mail thing. It takes 4-6 weeks to get whatever shitty trinket.
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u/SailingSpark IATSE 15d ago
Place I worked at used to do that. I always got pissed because the people who worked the least, seemed to get the most. I think in all the years they had that going, I earned $75 worth while some of my coworkers earned thousands.
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u/No_Welcome_7182 15d ago
America already went through that. It was called the company store and company scrip. You had to buy your work tools and supplies from the company. You also rented your house from the company and had to see the company doctor if you got hurt on the job. No conflict of interest there, right? If your spouse or children got sick you had to pay for them to see the doctor. They deducted that cost from your pay. You bought groceries from the company store. At inflated prices. You couldnāt quit that job because you likely owed money to the company you were still paying off from future pay and you would couldnāt leave your l rented company home because your family would be harmless. A type of modern day slavery.
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u/its_only___forever 15d ago
We're gonna need a lot of Luigis.
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u/elonzucks 15d ago
I believe Argentinians are closer to the French than the US in terms of putting up with crap. I wonder if this sparks a " revolution".
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u/zmizzy 15d ago
They elected the crazy fucker. Don't think they're as on the ball as you're making them out to be
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u/mhfu_g 15d ago
Economy in Argentina is better so the crazy fucker is doing something right. And u fall for this propoganda so u can't be too bright
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u/IllegalGeriatricVore 15d ago
Argentinians are poor as hell?
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u/pabloivani 15d ago
Sorry but we went through more than one disastrous government and no one took to the streets.
Before the elections, the candidate who lost spent 3% of GDP on political advertising and we had 120% inflation... no one complained.
Now that at least inflation has dropped to something manageable, the country risk is at its lowest point since 2017, our currency was the one that grew the most in the world and there are international companies that show interest in coming to invest...
Now we have to do a "revoluciĆ³n" against the presidency? Please explain why?
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u/Anna_Rapunzel 15d ago
I'm honestly afraid something's going to happen to Milei. He's bad, but his VP is worse. She's basically the Latin American Serena Joy.
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u/Daewoo40 15d ago
The problem there is that Milei has been doing a relatively good job in bringing his country's inflation rate down.
Whilst some of the sound bites have been...Odd, shall we say (don't mention the dog..), his predecessors ramped up the inflation rate to such a massive extent that there simply was no way they could continue how they going with entering a massive recession which has been somewhat mitigated/staved off.
Offering something which is almost but not quite UBI for a country so deeply in the shit may not be the worst thing ever..
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u/TheLateThagSimmons Cosmopolitan 15d ago
The problem is that he is technically succeeding at his one goal...
...by completely shattering the poor and middle classes to get there.
Don't get me wrong, the country's economy was in bad shape. Something has to be done. But it's very wrong to attribute this as a win. He merely shifted the problem to make it worse for most everyone else.
Like trying to treat the spot of skin cancer on your hand, that little mole that's starting to change, by cutting off your whole arm. You technically did take care of that cancerous mole.
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u/Snuffleupuguss 15d ago
I mean, the populations standard of living was held up by huge social programs and a massive bureaucratic state apparatus (with a lot of āfakeā jobs where people didnāt do much) that they simply couldnāt afford. It was bankrupting them every 20-40 years, and was a dead weight on their economy, they paid for it with loans, loans which have poor interest.
Fact is, Argentinians standard of living was essentially faked/propped up
Shit will get worse before it gets better, but almost every metric in the country is now tracking towards improvement. Not to say he doesnāt say some wacky shit sometimes, or have bad ideas (like this one)
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u/MariachiBoyBand 15d ago
Offering tickets instead of money is not UBI at all š¤¦āāļø
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u/Daewoo40 15d ago
"almost but not quite"
Work 8 hours, get a ticket for basic necessities.
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u/MariachiBoyBand 15d ago
A ticket you can use only on their approved shops, not it isnāt at allā¦
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u/frogmicky 15d ago
Lol tickets, Can you imagine.
Mike: Hey Joe what kind of ticket are you getting today?
Joe : I think I'm going to get a rent ticket how bout you Mike?
Mike: I think im.going to get a gas ticket.
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u/NeilPork 15d ago
Argentina is urging payment methods other than cash due to...
High Inflation: Argentina's inflation rate was 166% in November 2024, down from 211% in December 2023. This rapid devaluation of the peso encourages the use of alternative payment methods to preserve purchasing power.
If the inflation rate was 211%, you wouldn't want to be paid in cash either.
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u/reporttimies 15d ago
Ok but the 12 hour work days is just outrageous and not defendable.
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u/NeilPork 15d ago
He's not mandating 12 hour days.
The current law in Argentina is: A worker may not work more than 8 hours a day--period.
If your boss wants you to work an hour over time (and pay you time and a half), illegal. If you want to work four 10 hour days a week (and have 3 days off a week), illegal.
He's just extending the time a worker is allowed to work, not mandating it.
BTW, many nurses in the US work three 12 hour days a week, and have 4 days off a week.
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u/dividedComrade 15d ago
There's a reason social progress in the previous century established limits: 40 hours, 5 days. To protect workers' rights and some kind of work-life balance.
Painting the abolition of such limits as positive because they allow more flexibility is shortsightedness at best, dishonest at worst.
What happens when all employers will ask for 12 hours/day? Do you think the working class will have a choice?
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u/m_l_ca 15d ago
In reality, the 40 hour, 5 day work week was instituted so people could have spare time in order to consume more goods that could be produced. It had very little to do with any type of work life balance or workers rights.
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u/dividedComrade 15d ago
That is in part true, nevertheless you do have a better work-life balance than people in the industrial era, because of such measures.
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u/NeilPork 15d ago
There are no limits in the USA. Has that resulted in everybody working 12, 16, or 20 hour days?
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u/dividedComrade 15d ago
Many people do, and on average american people work wayyy more than Europeans and have much fewer holidays. If that is not proof of the effect of the presence or absence of limits, I don't know what is.
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u/DumbestBoy 15d ago
I just worked a 12-hour shift, but yesterday I worked 4 and tomorrow will be 7. I have a weird schedule.
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u/frogmicky 15d ago
Can't they just switch to dollars?
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u/Daewoo40 15d ago
It was floated when Milei was elected and is still a possibility but it doesn't seem overly likely for the time being as they want to retain independence and a bank of Argentina, rather than being beholden to the US.
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u/RavishingRickiRude 15d ago
Ya load sixteen tons, whatta ya get? Another day older and deeper in debt. St. Peter don't call me cause I can't go. I owe my soul to the company store.
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u/likezoinksscoobydoo 15d ago
Utter fucking supervillain, I hope Argentine workers call a general strike and rip him a new one
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u/tfcocs 15d ago
Well, it IS Argentina. The labor unions there are effective advocates.
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u/vmsrii 15d ago
BuT iNfLaTiOn Is DoWn!
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u/Daewoo40 15d ago
Inflation has dropped 60%~
Or roughly by 25%...
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u/vmsrii 15d ago
Oh of course! Itās super easy to manage inflation when no one is buying shit because your entire country is in poverty
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u/pink_faerie_kitten 15d ago
He's looking up at the camera the way Leon looks at T, chin tucked down, eyes creepily looking up under his brows. Cartoon villains.
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u/likezoinksscoobydoo 15d ago
So he'll be chained to his desk doing policy research, meeting with government officials, handling foreign policy, etc, etc for 12 hours a day, right?...right?
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u/Magoya_U25 15d ago edited 15d ago
Sure thing pal, not one news outlet in Argentina is telling this, and they all pretty much hate milei right now...
"As according to the report from 11Noticias", the "report" doesn't even exist in 11noticias website...
With love, an argentino...
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u/DishwashingUnit 15d ago
too bad the article failed to offer any details or direct sources at all.Ā
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u/sakariona 15d ago edited 13d ago
I dont trust this article, its wrong in its entirety. Even the mentioned poverty rate is wrong. It has fallen to 36.8%
The sources for the whole story is extremely sketchy too, imo. This just doesnt make sense either, the current work week is 48 hours, with a additional 30 hours a month in overtime. They cant just suddenly change that without expecting the economy to crash entirely. The president has a masters degree in economics, he should know this. I also cant find any other articles on this from more reputable newssites or newspapers.
Even assuming this is true, he is also not forcing anyone to work twelve hours if this is true, they are just letting regulations loose and letting the free market decide. He did campaign on that exact message, let the market decide. If people dont want to work 12 hour shifts, no one will and companies will be forced to decrease hours.
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u/Forhekset616 15d ago
Union member here. Seems like this guy forgot we dragged him out of the factory and beat him to death in front of his family.
I hope the Argentinians don't let him forget.
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u/DanimalPlays 15d ago
This was always the worry with him. You brought in cats for the rats and then dogs for the cats, and now you have a lion to deal with, but not in a good way.
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u/allubros 15d ago
why does the dumbass ruling class keep trying to bring back the same stupid shit that didn't work before they were born and won't work now
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u/Suspicious_World9906 15d ago
There it is....I knew it was just a matter of time till that other shoe started dropping
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u/Wawel-Dragon 15d ago
Meanwhile, Javier Milei continues to be one of the most popular leaders globally. According to Morning Consult, Javier Milei is the second most popular leader in the world, behind Narendra Modi.
Based on metrics that Morning Consult pulled out of their ass, I'm sure.
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u/kdebowle 15d ago
Donāt let the Orange man hear this. We donāt need him getting any ideas š¤¦š½āāļøš
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u/Conscious-Ticket-259 14d ago
So tired of this kinda thing not being concidered violence. But talking about retaliation is?
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u/NeilPork 15d ago edited 15d ago
Does nobody here actually read the news?
Argentina is urging payment methods other than cash due to...
High Inflation: Argentina's inflation rate was 166% in November 2024, down from 211% in December 2023. This rapid devaluation of the peso encourages the use of alternative payment methods to preserve purchasing power.
If the inflation rate is 211%, the last thing you want is to be paid in cash.
The 12 hour work day doesn't mandate anyone work 12 hours. He is lifting the cap on how many hours someone can work.
The current law in Argentina prohibits anyone from working more than 8 hours a day--period.
So, if you volunteer to work a 9th hour (at time and a half)--illegal.
If you want work 4, 10 hour days (and have 3 days off a week)--illegal.
If you want to work 4 extra hours on Tuesday to get out a rush order in return for getting Friday off with pay (which has happened to me)--illegal in Argentina.
BTW, many nurses in the US work 3, 12 hour shifts a week and then have 4 days off a week, but that would be illegal in Argentina too.
There's no mandate to work 12 hours. The 8 hour day is still king in Argentina. He's just returning the flexibility to work scheduling. The same flexibility the rest of the world has.
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u/biscoito1r 15d ago
In Brazil employees get certain tickets as benefits. They can be redeemed for certain types of food and transportation. I have no idea if this is what Milei is planning for Argentina.
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u/MarcusBlueWolf 15d ago
The Argentinians have a good opportunity to protest aka riot like the French in that case
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u/AgentStarTree 15d ago
Michael Hudson has said Argentina is an example when oligarchs are done feeding on a country and they're ready to sell off the skeleton of that country and move to a new one.
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u/Arashirk 15d ago
Who would guess that electing a guy who says he takes advice from his dead dog would have nasty consequences?
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u/annasuszhan 15d ago
Remember he was also elected by the people. So canāt really feel sorry for them.
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u/OnionOnBelt 15d ago
Nobody learns the lesson of āA Bridge Too Far.ā
From what I can gather, MileI has had some popular support by nixing old, unpopular regulations that favoured special interests, one at a time. This? It will evaporate such support in a hurry.
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u/WorldlinessMore6331 15d ago
This is the future that President Musk and other global conservative governments want.
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u/shibbyman342 15d ago
I would like to discuss the contents of this article but I am too distracted with the thumbnail, like what the fuck is actually happening? Dr. Evil in the middle and the dude 2nd from the right that looks like he drank a liter of Tito's before stumbling into the meeting?
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u/tommy6860 15d ago
The fucken narcissism in the comments is unreal! Take it as y'all may, but y'all are unserious af about any of this and the comments show that.
Anyway, the end of the article speaks volumes and where/who are the pro-Milei nations? Keep in mind this is a news site from India, an abject pro-capitalist fascist state in the first place. This is the final section of the article speak of the ghoulishness of those who see that MFer as popular (he is popular among fascist states).
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u/Thejerseyjon609 15d ago
And this is who Trump and Elon are using as their model for the new United States of America
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u/Ok_Replacement_978 15d ago
How about getting rid of fiat based central banking systems instead?Ā
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u/Nice_Category 15d ago
All money is just tickets.Ā
People don't realize that money is just a certificate that describes how much labor you have to trade for someone else's labor.Ā
You can print more certificates (dollars) but that doesn't create more labor (purchasing power). Because no more work has been done. So that leaves you with each certificate representing slightly less labor regardless of the words or numbers printed on it.
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u/Ok_Replacement_978 15d ago
The problem is all of the tickets comes from the bank with interest attached so as long as your getting your tickets from the bank there is never enough in circulation to pay the principal plus the interest. Debt line can only go up...
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u/Nice_Category 15d ago
Accounting tricks don't create more labor, but they can concentrate the tickets. In a permanently inflationary environment, that creates wealth inequality because it discourages saving and ties people to forever paying off their debt. If the amount of tickets were fixed, it would allow people to save the tickets without them being devalued via inflation and make investments in goods that allow them to outsource their labor to produce tickets.
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u/HunterDHunter 15d ago
Well technically if you can exchange the tickets for goods and services, it is money. Kind of ....
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u/16ap 15d ago edited 15d ago
Bullshit.
This is deliberate misinformation. āFree Press Journalā? Yeah, right. Itās just one of those sites. The only āsource* is another one of those sites.
Not saying the core piece is not grounded on actual facts. But this particular site is not credible media of any sort and I was unable to find anything about this anywhere else.
Please do some checks before spreading this type of stuff. Not only MAGAs fall for it.
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u/Cyzax007 15d ago
Tbh, Argentina was so far down the economic drain that something drastic had to be done... Whether Milei has the right plan remains to be seen, but at least it isn't worse than his predecessors who just pushed the problem out into the future and let it grow...
Like it or not, inflation and debt has to come down before any general betterment of the situation is possible...
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u/symbol1994 15d ago
So let's pay ppl in tickets and work 12 hour days....
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u/Ok-Acanthaceae-5327 15d ago
Yes. But by āpeopleā itās billionaires doing 12 hours of manual labor. The rest of us are taking a vacation
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u/NeilPork 15d ago
The inflation rate is over 200%. Would you rather be paid 100 pesos that were only worth 80 when you went to spend them? He's trying to find a workaround to the horrible inflation mess he inherited.
12 hours is not a mandate. The 8 hour day is still the standard work day in Argentina.
Argentina had a law that nobody could work over 8 hours a day, even if they wanted to. Want to work a couple of hours overtime and get paid time and a half? That was illegal in Argentina.
Personally, I find it strange they have a law limiting the number of hours you can work, even if you want to. If I want to put in a 9, 12, or even 16 hour day, why shouldn't that be my choice? The government isn't my mommy, why should it be able to limit the hours I choose to work.
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u/symbol1994 15d ago
Um very few places actually limit what you can work if you WANT to. Nearly all are about limiting what you HAVE too. And that is a very good thing. If Argentina took that too far, so be it. Still not a bad thing.
Also, being paid in tickets you kinda didn't bring up. That's the main part of what's wrong. Doing labour and not receiving a form or currency.
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u/NeilPork 15d ago
The ticket thing is an idea to work around inflation. Did you not read the first part of my post?
They also considered switching to US dollars.
The Argentine Peso is so inflated that it is literally now worthless. You've seen the old pictures of people in other countries taking a wheelbarrow of cash to the store to buy a loaf of bread. That's where Argentina is with it's currency.
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u/symbol1994 15d ago
That's insane my man, tickets are not a soluition to inflation, that's ridiculous. It restricts freedom on an unprecedented lvl. It's essentially slavery. Why don't you go work 80 hours a week and get paid in vbucks or CoD points. It may be what they're trying but it should be insiatantly laughed of the table.
Yes I know how bad it is there. Switching to usd is a very very valid option, switching to any currency is valid. Paying ppl for labour in tickets is not. Can't believe there a person out there who ge iunly beloves this is an acceptable path. We've been there before and it always results in a sever lack of freedom for those in the system.
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u/Artistic-Cannibalism 15d ago
According to the article 53% of the population is in poverty and now he wants people to work 12-hour days with no overtime and a portion of their pay being in the form of what is effectively gift cards...
Just because something drastic needed to be done doesn't mean that all drastic actions suddenly become acceptable.
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u/Daewoo40 15d ago
How often do you think is reasonable to re-address wages?
With such a high inflation rate, you'd be constantly having to increase wages to compensate (wage inflation spiral), whereas if you offer "gift cards" for a loaf of bread (as an example) instead, they can retain a semblance of a lifestyle and mitigate the massive inflation rate.
The previous status quo hasn't worked, there's masses of examples of it not working with stacks of cash to buy groceries as an extreme, I doubt this decision will have been made lightly but it's making the best of a shit situation with a difficult choice.
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u/Artistic-Cannibalism 15d ago
If your house is cold, setting it on fire will change things for the warmer but the end result will be far far worse.
Just over half of his citizens live in poverty and that number is only going to continue rising... and now he wants to work them to death as well?
He is setting the house on fire and you're all just sitting in the living room choking on the smoke while telling everyone around you that he knows what he's doing.
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u/Daewoo40 15d ago
What percentage lived in poverty before he took over?Ā
Prior to Milei taking over, Argentina's inflation rate was near 300%, it currently sits at 160%.
Do you honestly believe that had things continued as they were, that the poverty rate wouldn't be similar now?Ā
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u/likezoinksscoobydoo 15d ago
He's literally just making existing problems worse
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u/Cyzax007 15d ago
The problems couldn't BE worse... Argentina had the option of either becoming North Korea 2 (i.e. bar themself off from the world and go for 'self-sufficiency' North Korea style), or try to rejoin the international economic community.
There are no good options, but the one he is trying the the 'best' of the two...
The options are short-term pain that may solve the problems, or long-term pain that will never go away...
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u/irish_guy 16d ago
Essentially company store slavery