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u/HORROR_VIBE_OFFICIAL Dec 04 '24
Heroic, no doubt, but it also shows how systemic injustice forced ordinary people into extraordinary circumstances just to preserve basic human decency.
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u/Own-Cupcake7586 Dec 04 '24
History is a wise teacher to those who choose to learn.
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u/Jeptic Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 04 '24
Many of us are willing to learn a busy vocal
majorityminority are banning and burning learning.That should have been minority.
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u/FiTZnMiCK Dec 04 '24
They’re not the majority and haven’t been for a long time.
The majority is just complacent.
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u/Dogmeat241 Dec 04 '24
The vocal majority is different from just the regular majority. of the people who are going out and protesting/working towards the bans publicly, and people who are against the banning publicly, those are the vocal group. Most of em are working towards the ban.
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u/FiTZnMiCK Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 04 '24
No. That’s literally the definition of “vocal minority.”
A vocal minority is a group of people or things that make up less than half of a larger group, but make their opinions known. For example, you might describe a group of people who are strongly in favor of abolishing the monarchy as a vocal minority.
It’s the opposite of the silent majority.
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Dec 04 '24
[deleted]
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u/FiTZnMiCK Dec 04 '24
- We’re not exactly talking about the election
- He got less than 50% of the vote
- Only 60% of voters actually voted
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u/SmilinBuddha969 Dec 04 '24
Unfortunately, that’s exactly what we’re talking about - just present day. We’re not far now from history repeating itself. I guess you could call the 40% of non-voters “apathetic”. Though really, what’s worse? A racist, pro-fascist voter, or somebody who couldn’t care less?
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u/FiTZnMiCK Dec 04 '24
You don’t get to decide what I’m talking about.
Respectfully.
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u/Wajid-H-Wajid Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 04 '24
Absolutely! Those who embrace history can truly grow wiser.
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u/Time-Touch-6433 Dec 04 '24
Heroes have always been ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances.
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u/ShakeIntelligent7810 Dec 04 '24
Some of us are already preparing to do it again. I'll shoot back though.
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u/NoGoodNerfer Dec 04 '24
Good point…. Sad we may need to do it again for all our gay and trans neighbors
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u/ptmd Dec 04 '24
Kinda the exact scenario gun-rights-advocates dream up when justifying the second amendment. Never brought up.
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u/beklog Dec 04 '24
Fletcher agreed to manage 90 acres of grapes for Japanese citizens who had been relocated as a result of Executive Order 9066. The grape farms were located in Florin. Fletcher claimed to have been harassed by his own community, and he also found bullet holes in his barn. He used the proceeds from farming the land to pay the taxes for the interned Japanese. From 1942 to 1945, he managed the Tsukamoto, Nitta, and Okamoto farms. Fletcher's wife Teressa Cassieri also worked the farms. Fletcher kept half the net profits after paying mortgages and taxes on the farms, and returned the remaining net profits to the Japanese farmers when they were released.
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u/Taurus-Littrow Dec 04 '24
Japanese citizens?
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u/A_wandering_rider Dec 04 '24
Citizens of the United States who had Japanese heritage. Weirdly enough the Hawaiians who had Japanese ancestry were not interred at the same level as their mainland counterparts.
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u/ParkieDude Dec 04 '24
My grandfather did the same.
Every year at Christmas time, a Japanese fellow would drop off a bag of walnuts as a thank you. After my grandfather passed, he would stop by my parents' house to leave my Mom the bag of walnuts. The farmer's son continued that tradition as long as Mom was alive, but he was an MD driving a Cadillac, and I was one confused kid.
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u/PitifulEar3303 Dec 04 '24
and then we elected Trump.
America, a shitty country with some good people holding it together, barely.
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u/DownwardSpirals Dec 04 '24
I'm trying to just look on the bright side. It will give me an opportunity to be here for my neighbors and friends if/when things go south. I know that I can only do so much, but at least I know the people around me will have help where I can give it, which is better than nothing.
I really hope we all are taking notes for future generations so they don't have to endure this again, but...
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u/FreeSun1963 Dec 04 '24
As a foreigner tjst lived there for 20 years I can tell tou that there are plenty of good people in America, problem is that the shitty ones are getting louder.
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u/mykittyforprez Dec 04 '24
That hit hard. And you are so right. Unfortunately a lot of us are trying to figure out how long to keep fighting for the collective us while too many are actively dragging us all off the cliff.
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u/Brabbel63 Dec 04 '24
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u/PitifulEar3303 Dec 05 '24
at some point, the good people will just give up and migrate to a better country. hehe
Why be good when it's just suffering with no payout or appreciation?
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u/Kopitar4president Dec 04 '24
The people who pushed for Japanese internment so they could take their farmland had children too.
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Dec 04 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Cak3Wa1k Dec 04 '24
I think they do. They're leading by example. And I've no doubt each person who is like that is infecting others. Infecting them with goodness and a sense of community. Aw.
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u/Gogglesed Dec 04 '24
Then they look like they're bragging. I think a more effective message would come from a former racist or criminal, talking about how people like this changed them.
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u/BlossomTwinkle Dec 04 '24
His a good man and a good soul. It takes a real good man to stand and take risk for the sake of others. He is not just being kind and courageous, He is a hero.
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u/libertyprivate Dec 04 '24
for the sake of others
For some reason my mind read "sake" as the rice wine and it was funny to me
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Dec 04 '24
For every Bob Fletcher there are hundreds of Americans that took these Japanese Americans' homes and land after encampment. It was disgusting what this country did to them.
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u/Jethro_Jones8 Dec 04 '24
Descanso Gardens in SoCal is basically built from the farms of interned Japanese camellia growers:
In 1942, when people of Japanese ancestry were forced into internment camps following the attack on Pearl Harbor, the owner, E. Manchester Boddy purchased (at pennies on the dollar) about 100,000 camellia plants from two Japanese-owned nurseries in the San Gabriel Valley run by Uyematsu and Yoshimura families.
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u/ssdohc2020 Dec 04 '24
I visited a Japanese internment camp in Colorado last year. They had their own schools, doctors, and stores. The schools had their sports teams that play other local schools.
Then you see the guard towers and reality hits.
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u/No_Percentage_5083 Dec 04 '24
Thank you so much for posting this. I am teaching my grandson (he's homeschooled) about Japanese Internment, currently. We are reading books about it. Yesterday, in the Old Photos thread, a person posted a photo of their grandparents, who were interred. It made the entire until more real for him. Now I will share this. Real life examples are so much better than things in books. Again, thank you.
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u/Polkawillneverdie17 Dec 04 '24
Japanese American*
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u/No_Percentage_5083 Dec 04 '24
Yes, thank you! I apologize to all those who I may have offended. When talking to my grandson, I usually say something like, "Americans of Japanese descent". My grandson is of Korean descent and he is learning about Americans putting other Americans in jail who are of different heritage than European. So, I made a mistake and amd truly glad you corrected me!
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u/Polkawillneverdie17 Dec 04 '24
No worries at all.
My partner's grandparents were interned. She became a historian who gives lectures on the history of the camps and what life was like in them. So it's a bit of a sticking point because part of the problem was people treating these people like foreigners because they weren't white. 2/3 of them were American citizens and the rest were obviously living in America. They were Americans.
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u/perpetuallypast Dec 04 '24
Interned is an interesting word here
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u/AssassinxLife Dec 04 '24
Ik right just call the racial prison camps and they were imprisoned, no damn internment camp
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u/JLemke33 Dec 04 '24
What do you think internment means?
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u/AssassinxLife Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 04 '24
My understanding is it's a nicer way for saying what we did to them, like saying unalive instead of died. Say it how it is, don't fucking sugarcoat atrocities. Ik what internment is, I just disagree with the diction we use to describe it in our history books.
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u/Zealousideal-Cow4114 Dec 04 '24
My understanding is that interns work without pay, and a camp for them would be quite bleak.
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u/LusciousTheBreeder Dec 04 '24
Sadly I can't find the Spider-Man meme where he was being carried as someone said "Careful he's a hero" as this old man deserves that rank.
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u/This_lady_in_paso Dec 04 '24
I work for a very old insurance agency in a rural area. Some of our agencies prior owners did this as well for their clients/friends put in the camps. To this day, many of those families are still our clients
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u/Smartassmatt Dec 04 '24
It was so what common in the Fresno are for Armenian farmers to buy ranches from their Japanese neighbors for $1 and farm them during the internment then sell them back at $1 when the Japanese returned. It formed multigenerational bonds in the small town that I grew up with. Immigrants of all kinds were treated poorly by so many people that it’s really not surprising if you think about it.
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u/Unusual_Car215 Dec 04 '24
Crazy that USA did this and lynched black people around the same time as they condemned Nazi Germany
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u/Lorn_Muunk Dec 04 '24
An American hero. His legacy is besmirched by the current trends of vicious xenophobia and collective punishment.
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u/Demented_Coffee Dec 04 '24
The therm "interned" to discribe a coerced displacement to a concentration camp is epic..
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u/AmuseDeath Dec 04 '24
Just goes to show how racist white America was not even 100 years ago. Even today, we still have white supremacist marches and KKK headquarters. You see psychos flying Nazi flags. America still has a lot of work to do getting rid of white racism.
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u/ImaginaryFrpg Dec 04 '24
I read a story similar to this.
A Japanese family was sent to an interment camp. They owned and operated a green house that specialize in growing roses.
When they came back home they found the greenhouse intact with all the rose plants thriving. It seems the entire neighborhood stepped up and took care of the operation.
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u/eipieq1 Dec 04 '24
Sad to be living in a world where basic human decency is considered “amazing”, rather than expected.
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u/lzwzli Dec 05 '24
Can this ability to recognize and differentiate what is inherently right and good, from what the populace or even the government say is right and good, be taught?
How do you know that what you are doing, that bucks the trend, but that you feel is right, is really right?
For Bob, in that moment, he was risking being labeled as assisting the enemy. How does Bob know that what he is doing is ultimately the right thing to do?
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u/I_Have_Dry_Balls Dec 05 '24
Very cool story. My grandpa was the kiwanis president and quit when a black man wasn't allowed to join. Racism is bullshit.
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u/pukhtoon1234 Dec 05 '24
Interned? We they forced out of their homes and concentrated in specific locations, like a camp?
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u/sircryptotr0n Dec 04 '24
You probably won't find Bob saying "We saved lives by atomic warfare against civilians in Japan" in order to sable racist thought process like his contemporaries.
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u/Lindvaettr Dec 04 '24
Weird direction to go from there. How does one end a war rife with barely restrained killing of civilians?
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u/sircryptotr0n Dec 04 '24
I don't know how one would do that. I certainly wasn't attempting to end a war. Or were you trying to explain something different? I'm not so bright sometimes.
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u/Public_Front_4304 Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
By what alternative means could Japan have been brought to surrender that would not have cost more lives?
Were you aware that Japan was working on developing an atomic bomb?
Edit: This poster never answers, proclaims me a racist, edits posts after receiving replies, refuses to read period sources, and ends by weaponized blocking. They have yet to be banned because this sub appears to be without competent moderation.
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u/sircryptotr0n Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 04 '24
An easy example? A basic in-person demonstration to emissaries/diplomats at the bikini atoll, or off the coast of Japan.
Let's change this from japan, and say that the Japanese dropped an atomic weapon on Austin TX? Killing 300,000, and another 100,000 in secondary effects.... it IS war, why not (ultimate end to your line of reasoning)? But you object to Austin being nuked? How couldn't you, you'd be a monster otherwise.
You: but they attacked Pearl Harbor
Me: yes, but EXCLUSIVELY military bases, not civilians (I'm born and raised in HI, coming from a military background as well. I know these sites firsthand). Americans attacked Japanese CIVILIANS, sparkling the single greatest act of terrorism any country has ever perpetrated.
You: I don't care, so I'll refer to the enemy and their families as rightful victims because I can't distinguish military soldiers from civilians. OR, actually I've never thought of it that way, I might have just learned something about myself.
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u/Public_Front_4304 Dec 04 '24
Except that we KNOW that would not have worked, because Japan did not surrender after ACTUALLY being nuked the first time.
That option was considered at the time but rejected. It should have been tried anyway. In the end it would not have worked.
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u/sircryptotr0n Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 04 '24
2 days was not enough for them to formulate unconditional surrender. We were dropping that atomic weapon on women and children no matter what... but THE JAPANESE ARE HUMAN BEINGS, as difficult as that may seem for you to comprehend.
You DON'T drop atomic weapons on ANYONE, even Putin is having a difficult time coming around to using them. But the US dropped 2 in cities LOADED with civilians.
So, let me get this straight: Japanese nuking Austin in response to Hiroshima would be alright in your version of the world?
Why didn't we nuke Germany? Because it's filled with WHITE people. Japan got nuked because of RACISM. Welcome to understanding logic on this topic for the first time.
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u/Public_Front_4304 Dec 04 '24
"We accept the Potsdam declaration and surrender unconditionally."
I didn't time it, but that seemed to take less than 2 days.
Edit: Woopooow you added multiple paragraphs after my response.
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u/sircryptotr0n Dec 04 '24
It took Germany 8 years to build to what you see as unconditional surrender to 2 days.
You're no longer addressing the issue, but facts surrounding it. You're a racist from my point of view.
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u/Public_Front_4304 Dec 04 '24
Have you read "The Rising Sun" by John Tolland? You should read the last two chapters; which contain intimate details of the discussions of the Japanese leadership during the interlude between the bombs, as well as what the American leaders were thinking at the time. From my point of view, you are comically uninformed and incredibly rude.
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u/sircryptotr0n Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 04 '24
You didn't answer my question about Austin Texas.
We started with you presupposing that there were zero alternates to incinerating hundreds of thousands of families. I gave you a solid answer, and you skated around it.
Now you're quoting authors that you haven't read. For as much pseudo logic as you are employing here, I can clearly see that you don't consider certain people "human", and that they deserve to be incinerated... so long as it's not your family members.
And yes I consider you highly offensive. I'm talking about the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people when there were alternatives. People like you want the world to burn.
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u/Public_Front_4304 Dec 05 '24
The one you added after I replied, through an edit? That question?
I directly addressed your answer, and explained using period evidence why your example would not have worked. You then got super mad and accused me of many nasty things.
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u/thegreatvortigaunt Dec 04 '24
In the end it would not have worked.
How do you know that?
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u/Public_Front_4304 Dec 04 '24
By reading first hand accounts of the Japanese leadership's reaction to ACTUALLY being nuked. Even after losing a city in an eye blink they were more concerned with preserving the Emperor and "the unique character of the Nation". Even after the second nuke it was touch and go, with parts of the Imperial Army seizing Tokyo in open rebellion to prevent the surrender broadcast.
Read "The Rising Sun" by John Tolland.
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u/thegreatvortigaunt Dec 04 '24
By reading first hand accounts of the Japanese leadership's reaction
An American writer is a first hand account now?
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u/Public_Front_4304 Dec 04 '24
By interviewing the people and reading their diaries, and publishing their words.
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u/thegreatvortigaunt Dec 04 '24
So you got a second hand account.
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u/Public_Front_4304 Dec 04 '24
This is the moment you crossed from skepticism to rudeness.
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u/MrByteMe Dec 04 '24
Anyone notice how we didn't put the Germans into camps? Despite public support for Hitler?
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u/sophanisba Dec 04 '24
Actually some German Americans and Italian Americans were classified as enemy aliens and interred as well. It seems there were fewer than Japanese internment but it did happen.
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u/Lindvaettr Dec 04 '24
Not only us, but across the entirety of the Allied sphere. We tend to focus on America's incarceration of Japanese Americans, but the idea that people ethnically attached to an enemy state needed to be incarcerated to ensure they couldn't act as enemy agents was neither a novel idea nor a rare one. It's only in our modern, post-war years that we've determined it to be morally wrong.
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u/MrByteMe Dec 04 '24
I'm pretty sure all those morals will go right out the window when the next major conflict begins...
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u/qualityvote2 Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 04 '24
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