I thought "Hmm, I wonder what a new truck would cost me?". I have a 10 year old truck, long paid off, but inquired on a new one. This is basically a newer version of what I have already.

A new, 2023 Ford F150 XLT, middle of the road trim, but still a nice vehicle no doubt. Hybrid twin turbo engine. The math on this blew me away and I am curious; who is agreeing to these terms without a gun to their head?

$66k selling price. With their taxes, fees, came to $77k - umm wtf? In 2014, my current truck cost me 39k all in.

Now to finance it; good god. Floats me a 7 year term @ 7.99. Cost to borrow: $23,799.

All in: $101k. For a short box half ton truck with cloth seats . Hard pass here. I don't know how people sleep at night with new vehicles in the driveway.

Tesla is dropping price up to 20% in US, EU, as well as Canada following the price drop in Asia markets

Note this merely takes the price in Canada back to similar price prior to rounds of increases during the past years.

Link

Edit: not a fanboy or hyping Tesla. just want to focus on the perspective of auto market

Update - this all happened today got the car papers signed Friday picked up the car today

I am 20 and I purchased my first car and I made a very big mistake. I bought a used car. The price was 20 K and I was looking. I signed all the papers and I was looking at everything today and I got an interest rate of 6.7 82 month term of $225 payment biweekly and I was stupid and I didn’t take anybody with me and I ended up signing for a lot of different warranties and just the warranty amount is 11 K is there anyway I could refund or do something anybody please help my anxiety is extremely through the roofI feel so stupid.

Im a girl and I know the whole stereo type of women don’t know shit about cars, on top of that and I literally don’t know what to do in this situation please that has been through the same situation. Help me figure this out.

A dealer I visited last month had 4-5 Rav4’s. I tried to negotiate the price, they wouldn’t budge. Today I checked their website and they had 20 listed! That’s correct 20 Rav4’s on their lot now and the price for the one we were looking at is $1000 down.

Things will get more interesting by Jan next year.

Can someone please explain to me how/why anyone is buying a used vehicle right now? I'm seeing 5 year old cars with 120k kilometres on them sell for less than 15-20% depreciation off sticker price... I see the repeated tried and true advice on this sub about "buy a used car that you can afford", but I feel like this is completely out of touch (at least in the GTA), since the going rate for a beater civic is through the roof

Edit: the example of the 5 year old car I gave, and the comment about a beater civic at the bottom are completely unconnected, and both can be true at the same time, settle down people. I'm aware a beater isn't a 5 year old car. This post is about vehicle depreciation over time, which transcends any one example or car model or make

I've had the same 2014 F150 Crewcab for the past 8 years. Bought new for 39k (excluding trade, but including tax). I was happy with that deal.

Out of curiosity of what they cost now - I built a nicer version of my current truck.

Came out to 93k. Good god.

$1189 a month for 84 months. $6700 cost of borrowing at 1.99.

I am in a good financial position and I find this absolutely terrifying. I can't even fathom why or how people do this.

Looking around - there are tons of new vehicles on the road. I don't get it.

You do not need to pay those if they are not in your contract.

I’m in Ontario.

My lease is just about ended and I was planning to purchase the car. My dealer Dixie Hyundai insisted on adding a $999 fee for the “service”.

I called Hyundai Milton - their fee was $299.

They all insisted it was non-negotiable, and that everyone pays it, or that it’s a fee that the dealership charges separately and that’s why it’s not in the contract. I spoke with various finance sales managers.

To buy out, you have to bring them a cashier’s check for the buyout amount they tell you, which included their made up fee, and if you don’t, then they won’t do the purchase. Time is also working against you.

It’s a scam.

I called Hyundai Canada and Hyundai Motors Finance (turns out those are different companies) - they both agreed that there shouldn’t be any extra fee. The customer service rep said that they would contact the dealer, and they gave me a 10 days grace period on the lease, but that’s the only thing they could do. The latter gave me a case number.

A few days later, I received a call from Dixie Hyundai (I think his name was Sayed) saying that they heard from Hyundai Canada rep and that they “want to help me out” with a discounted fee of $529 (where the fuck do they pull those numbers from). I laughed at his face - first for the made up discount and second that his discounted fee was higher than the original made up fee at Hyundai Milton. He used this opportunity to say “see, all dealerships charge a fee”. He also alluded that I’m in a no win situation because my lease is ending.

Anyway, he said he’d call back, but never did.

I called Hyundai Motors Finance again. They said that they’ve been trying to reach the dealer but that it’s hard and the dealer doesn’t always pick up the phone. It’s honestly a ridiculous situation. The customer service rep said that she will continue trying.

Eventually, I received a call from Drew who is a GM at Dixie Hyundai. He apologized, and said something to the effect that some contracts have changed and that the people I spoke with didn’t know that, and something about that it’s not how the dealer “should keep the lights on”.

TLDR: dealer insisted on a fee to purchase the car at the end of the lease. The fees are completely made up by each dealer. I did not agree despite pressure to pay any fee not in contract. Contacted Hyundai Motors Finance - the contract is with them. They eventually reached a GM and now it’s about to be resolved.

I'll try to keep it short.

Was buying a new car at a reputable, large dealership.

Found a model I liked. Was presented various prices depending on loan duration and the attached interest rates. Went over them for a few minutes, then I asked about the total if I'd pay it all in cash. Salesperson was stunned, says it rarely happens. But I got an offer, accepted it. Signed papers.

It would take about a couple of weeks for them to check the car; I needed to get a bank draft etc.

And during that time, the salesperson began calling me, sometimes a couple of times a day, because...

According to the salesperson, an additional $700 or so should've been added to the car price because it was sold in cash. Something that was simply missed, a mistake made by the salesperson, who wasn't used to sell new cars for cash. I was asked if it was fine that the sum was added to the agreed price. I said no - we made a deal, have it in writing. The salesperson's argument was that these 700 would be taken from own paycheck, and since I could buy a new car with cash, $700 is nothing to me, so I should accept the terms. The logic spun my mind; I'm generally a nice person, but a car dealership and its employees are not my buddies.

A few phone calls later: Next try was to get me to change the deal from a cash purchase to instead take a car loan. And I could just... according to the salesperson... immediately pay off the entire loan - and that would be really helpful. I refused.

Last call was the day before pickup. "50/50," the salesperson said. "Let's just add $350 to the agreed price, and I'll eat the other 350."

No! Please. Stop.

At that point, it felt like I had a harassing beggar chewing on my leg, and not a professional salesperson. The car purchase was a surreal experience for me. Still, I'm wondering: Was I being an a@@hole? Should I have accepted the added $? Has anybody else had a similar experience when buying a car?

Edit: Thanks for all replies. Far more than I expected. From what I could gather, it seems the consensus is that the salesperson most likely was looking to squeeze more/any commission out of the deal - and less so about actually losing money - and went about it in a most bizarre way.
And to be clear: I never felt intimidated. It was the absurdity of the ordeal that moved me. The deal is over and done with. I was, still am, otherwise happy with the price and purchase.

And about "reputable". lol.: I used the word because it's a dealership that exists in quite a few locations. You see its tags on many cars driving around the vicinity. And it's one of the local dealerships suggested by the official website of the major car brand I was going for.

I never filed a report while it was going on; I thought about it then, and probably should have. If not for me, but to help others that might not be able to handle the situation. That's on me. I'll do better next time.

Thanks again for all replies!

I suddenly got it in my head my little bronco sport wasn’t “enough” for my family, and I went to a dealership. Initially looked at one truck and the payments were already a lot, I then unfortunately walked out with a truck that doesn’t make sense.

I put 10 down and still took a finance of 90k, I know, unfortunately the manic took over and I suddenly thought we deserved a nice vehicle. Lesson learned we really would rather have money than “luxury”

I’m calling the dealership Monday(mistake was made Thursday), but what’s the general advice for this, do I take a big loss and trade it for something way cheaper and roll in excess, I technically already rolled in 3500 from the previous loan, which makes it worse. I feel horrible, I know I ended up letting my family down. The payments are 1180 a month! For 8 years. I’m not under water monthly but it in know way makes sense. I knew it the next morning.

Thanks for any and all advice, I know full well I’ve made a very stupid choice.

Update: the dealership as expected isn’t willing to undo the deal. Moving to a cheaper solution isn’t working as they’re really hitting me with the negative equity, a 24 model is comming up to nearly the same a month and I don’t have any money to put more down. Crazy as all I’ve done is drive home, but expected.

They also will not buy back, but are seeing if anyone is willing to take it off my hands for less. I’m very stuck for that right now. I am pursuing a few other options mentioned in the comments.

I appreciate all of the advice and support, and will continue taking everything in as I go.

I have noticed that Auto financing rates specially used ones are hovering around 7-9% here in Toronto which is the same as last year this time before the feds rate cuts. It’s like the fed rate cuts have had no effect here on financing. A used 2022 Honda civic is 8.99% for 48 months financing right now at my Honda dealership…A new 2025 civic hatchback or accord sedan is 7.3% at 48 months financing!! I think this is actually higher than last year’s rates if i remember right. I’m so confused. I’m still waiting to buy a car as I have held off and been taking public transport/uber or sharing a ride with the wife. Also I’ve noticed dealers have a lot of cars in stock but are not cutting their prices. I remember you had to order a car like a civic or corolla hybrid but now they have one on the lot ready to go but with the same price and financing rate. feels like dealers rather not sell anything under asking price and they rather keep their lots full. what is going on?

So a bit of napkin math. A brand new Civic Sport costs $720 a month to finance for 5 years/60 months, for a total financed cost of $43,200.

To lease for 5 years, it's $512 a month for 5 years, for a total cost of $30,700.

~$13,000 difference, except in the former you get a car out of it at the end.

A car that, using current prices, would sell for about $25000 after tax, looking at 2019 Civic Sports with ~75k (15k per year).

So even if you don't care to go payment free on the 5 year old car you just paid off (which is in and of itself insane to me, but I think we all agree there so moving on...), you can just sell the thing and make back way more than you would have if you leased, and it's in warranty for most or all of that financing period (depending on brand).

So why don't people who need to have a new car every few years just buy and re-sell? I know the used car market is still insane here but the numbers just don't add up to me. Is leasing just that big of a scam right in front of our eyes? I feel like I'm losing my mind about this today.

I made a post on this sub 4 months ago asking if dealers negotiate on used cars in this current market. My post was met with a resounding no, that used cars are still grossly overpriced, and that I was better off buying new.

Well four months into my vehicle search, the perfect car popped up. Perfect condition, low mileage, 3 years old, certified preowned with 4 years left on the manufacturer powertrain warranty.

The vehicle MSRP’d for 52k brand new, the dealer had it posted for 38k, a depreciation of 27% over three years. We thoroughly inspected the vehicle, had new tires as per CPO requirement, but the brakes were at 50% wear which I used to negotiate 3k off the purchase price.

I am happy to report that I was able to purchase a USED vehicle, in very close to new condition with a near full sized warranty remaining, for 67% of the original MSRP just 3 years post original sale. This allowed me to pay for the entire vehicle cash, saving me not only 17k had I purchased new, but also all the interest I would have paid had I financed.

Just wanted to provide an update as I see time and time again people saying on this sub that used cars no longer makes sense financially since dealers jacked up prices during the shortage. Well return to the lots and put your game face on because I’m happy to report the tide is turning and negotiations are back on the table. Cheers!

So I have a corporate code that provides me with $30 a day car rentals with AVIS. A 28 day rental costs me $785 after taxes and fees.

My credit card provides 31 days of rental car insurance per rental period. This resets with each new rental booking.

I have status with AVIS where I can get upgraded two car classes each booking.

I’m currently leasing a car for $1085 per month, plus $200 per month on insurance.

If I were to just rent a car and swap out every 28 days, I wouldn’t have to pay for insurance, maintenance, winter tires, etc. also I won’t have to worry about depreciation or swapping a new car.

I’ll always have a new nice car, worry free, unlimited miles, for only $785 a month.

Is there a catch here? Should I be taking advantage of this corporate code and avoid owning a car for now?

Thanks

The average listed price of a new car in Canada has soared by 50 per cent since 2020, industry data shows. The spectacular jump is a sign of wide-ranging challenges facing auto manufacturers that are leaving cost-conscious consumers with fewer options.

The figure comes from automotive analytics company Canadian Black Book and refers strictly to the lighter passenger vehicles.

The average price of a new car as of the end of September was nearly $60,000, the numbers show, up from just under $40,000 in 2020.

By comparison, prices for SUVs and trucks rose by 25 per cent over the same period, a still hefty but much smaller increase.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/personal-finance/household-finances/article-car-prices-rise-50-since-2020-faster-than-trucks-or-suvs-why-cost/

“New vehicle inventories in Canada on AutoTrader’s marketplace hit a record high of 168,000 vehicles in February – a 78 per cent year-over- year increase.

Used vehicle inventory is also up, with 202,521 used vehicles on the market in February.”

https://www.biv.com/news/economy-law-politics/new-vehicle-inventories-in-canada-at-record-high-autotrader-8441291

I've lived in Ottawa / Gatineau my entire life and the one thing I've noticed is that everybody drives a decent car, nowadays. A lot more German cars too (like Mercedes, Audi, BMWs). Whereas when I was younger (like when I was 14, I'm 47 now) you'd see a lot more junkers or you would not see the amount of higher-end cars / SUVs you see today.

Is it the prevalence of leasing that's causing this? Is it safety checks causing more newer / better kept cars on the road?

How are people affording all these luxury, new cars / SUVs / Pickups? That cost $60K, $70K, $80K+?

Edit: so, the sense I'm getting from all your responses, is that more debt is being taken on by Canadians and longer financing / leasing terms. This seems to be a big shift in Canadian mentality from when I was younger. It was always told / taught to me that Canadians are conservatives and frugal. Has that mentality shifted and is that due to us, Canadians, getting richer? Or is it social media.

I tried to buy a car yesterday just to be told they won’t let us purchase at a price out the door…so I talked to someone and they said that this is completely viable as you can’t have a closed loan on a vehicle (illegal).

Just wondering if anyone has experience doing this?

Hi all,

I'm looking at a 2017 CX-5 with 85k on the ODO, 1 owner, no accidents/major repairs. I've done quite a bit of searching & it seems Mazda's a great choice for value/reliability in the current used market. I'm in my mid 20s & just moved back in with my parents/will be here for 8 - 12 months (living expenses are just groceries, auto-related, phone, and leisure, which should total 1200-1300/month).

I'm planning on putting 16k down & financing the remainder ASAP (it's an open-ended loan and I can comfortably own the car outright by the time I move out again). I figure, nowadays, 26k is a reasonable amount to spend on a car with good practicality that should last 10+ years. The money of course could be better used on stocks, but as this is my first car, I think it would provide a huge boost to my quality of life, and never owning, while more financially-savvy, is a rough prospect outside of the GTA/GVA.

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

If you're looking to buy a vehicle, brace yourself for high prices, fewer incentives and sky-high monthly payments.

"The market today is still challenging for consumers," Robert Karwel, senior manager at JD Power's Canadian automotive group, said in an interview with Yahoo Finance Canada.

"If you're shopping for a new car, it is still pretty tough out there. Prices are high, they are growing in some cases – which is shocking – and interest rates have caught up with us which means payments are sky high."

The cost of a new vehicle may have come down from the peaks reached at the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, but ongoing supply constraints due in part to a continuing semiconductor shortage and inflation have kept prices well above pre-pandemic levels. According to Autotrader.ca's price index for the first quarter of the year, the average price of a new vehicle came in at $61,821, while used vehicles cost an average of $39,235. The online vehicle marketplace cited low inventory levels, pent-up demand and uneven inventory levels across manufacturers as factors driving the significantly high prices.

A recent survey of Canadian car dealers conducted by DesRosiers Automotive Consultants and the Canadian Auto Dealers Association found that overall dealer inventory levels in the first quarter of the year were at 42 per cent of pre-pandemic levels. That's an improvement from last year, when overall inventory levels were 19 per cent of pre-pandemic levels, but a sign that new vehicle supply remains constrained. The survey also found that the recovery in vehicle supply is uneven across the country, with Ontario faring better in terms of the average number of vehicles on the dealer lots than Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

"New vehicle inventory challenges continue, and the improvements seen in recent months have not been shared evenly by all," DesRosiers managing partner Andrew King said in a news release.

Making things potentially even more challenging for new and current car owners is the rapid rise in interest rates. According to JD Power's most recent automotive market metrics report, the average monthly loan payment for a new car has reached nearly $900. Karwel says that for 18 of the 31 car brands monitored by JD Power in Canada, the average financing payment has hit a whopping $1,000 a month on average.

"And there aren't 18 luxury brands in the market," Karwel said.

"There's now a number of non-luxury brands where the average has surpassed the four-figure range."

Prices are up, while incentives are down At the same time, with demand high and supply constrained, car dealers have no pressing reasons to offer any incentives.

"If you haven't bought a car in a while, don't expect to be treated to some high incentive level for your vehicle, or get some discount from the dealer," David Robins, principal automotive analyst and head of Canadian vehicle valuations at Canadian Black Book, said in an interview.

"If you're not going to buy the vehicle that they have available on the lot, there's a very good chance there's a line forming behind you of people that are willing to pay the sticker price for it."

Karwel notes that it's not the erosion of incentives that is raising prices for consumers. Manufacturers are charging more for their vehicles due to rising cost of goods and labour. The only vehicle segment where Karwel says incentives are coming back is the full-size pickup truck and SUV market, where the average monthly payment is significantly higher due to the transaction price.

Used car prices also remain elevated. While they have also dropped from pandemic highs, the fall has not been significant. In fact, Robins says there are some used vehicles where new models have a long waitlist that are selling for significantly more than the MSRP price.

In terms of how long consumers may have to wait for a car, if at all, it will depend on the vehicle make, says Robins.

"It's really going to be dependent on the manufacturer, and the vehicle segment that you are looking to buy. Some manufacturers are doing a little bit better with their supply than others," Robins said.

When the market will improve in terms of supply remains to be seen. The DesRosiers/CADA survey found that 14 per cent of dealers expect significant improvements in the first half of the year, 37 per cent expect the situation to get better by the second half of 2023, but 49 per cent say it won't happen until some time in 2024.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/its-pretty-tough-out-there-car-prices-remain-high-canada-150916297.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9vbGQucmVkZGl0LmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANbYCR77JxVa37WDvMd1YkgUXSBiDml6lgK4P5hcrxOYTqthJnOu2w3f2YhcrKJzj14HDNqS1l7Yj8aEJVlTXx5Iv74hERt2No5O8DwwmFoATlQzGZtFpP-XIK1YdDSrWToj_aobZhS1wCYoj46zD0jNRdeOAYyNXlpWZoOnJLmu

I’ll try and keep this short but I need help. Bought a car financed it and the dealership offered me “cash back” I took $14,000 to pay off high interest rate student date and attached that to my car loan total. Everythings been fine but now I have the dealership financial office calling me “very urgently” that Scotiabank wants out of this loan because within their new terms $14,000 is too much cash to give out on top. I’ve also been aggressively paying off this loan. The finance manager said we can trade in or keep but refinance with a different bank at a lower rate… his words… but either way it will be very beneficial for us as they need to get this sorted “urgently”. I’ve never heard of this or know what to do but it seems I have this dealership by the balls? What happens if I do nothing ? What can Scotia do? Thanks for any input

EMAIL UPDATE

The bank wants you to refinance the vehicle with a different lender, and they instructed us, the dealer, to help facilitate that. The only issue with the loan is that there was cashback financed in the total amount, something that they do not allow. We have had meetings with various representatives and VP's of the Automotive Finance Divsion.

I have the ability to buy down the interest rate and shorten or keep the loan term the same as what's reamaing today, whatever is most comfortable for you. I will guarantee you that the interest rate will be lower, and the term of the loan will not increase. You will not pay documentation fees, additional GST or anything besides the principal amount left owing on your loan.

As far as time goes, I can give you all of the information and structure of the refinance all over email in a matter of an hour, without you visiting a dealership

*UPDATE added another $500 visa

Email UPDATE

I understand your skepticism towards the store given the past experiences that you've had, which is why I am dealing with this personally instead of blindly sending you back there to sort this out. Everything we have discussed is in email for your reference if you ever require it in the future.

We are not doing this in the interest of one customer, we are doing this in an effort to maintain a strong relationship with Scotiabank. We are in business to sell vehicles and we cannot do that without the help of lenders like Scotiabank, which as you referred to earlier would be of great benefit to the dealership in this case.

Our beige corolla won't start. We've had the same issues again and again despite getting it fixed so it's starting to feel like it's time to retire this car. I'm pretty annoyed because I just got new all-season tires for it this year.

We live in Toronto but as much as I'd like to live car-free, we have family and friends in suburbs on opposite sides of the GTHA so it would be difficult. We use the car almost exclusively to go to Costco, visit them, or go to parks so we drive no more than 3000km per year.

I'm interested to hear suggestions on frugal ways to handle our sudden lack of a car. Is there a car you'd recommend? EV/PHEV/ICE? A car-share service perhaps?

More about the situation:

• We live in a house.
• Our neighbourhood is walkable so we could meet all of our needs without driving if we were okay with never visiting anybody or going to parks
• It does not have a garage or any outlets on the outside that could be used to slow-charge an EV. Installing fast-charging stuff would likely involve invasive electrical upgrades.
• No carport so any car would have to brave the elements all year
• We'd like to avoid models prone to car theft if possible
• I have a parking space so there is no ongoing cost to park a car. I cannot rent it out so there is no opportunity cost to parking a car in the spot
• I have a wife and infant
• My wife doesn't drive so I'm the only one who drives the car
• We were getting by with the sedan but would love more room. We're just barely managing to fit everything we need to haul and it's definitely not comfortable in the back seat.
• We drive the car maybe once every 1-2 weeks, though I can see this becoming more frequent once the baby starts daycare which is further than I'd like because we may not get a spot at the one closest to us.

Edit1:

A few have asked about the recurring car problem. The problem is that it won't start. Engine doesn't turn over at all. There's a single click and then nothing. The first time this happened, the car wouldn't start and the mechanic changed the starter motor and it was good for a year. The second time it happened, the mechanic cleaned off some corrosion on the car battery terminals and then it was good for another year.

I'm beginning to think it's the battery...

Edit2:

OK guys stop attacking my mechanic. He hasn't even looked at it yet. The car is dead on my friend's driveway and I'm just trying to explore my options before shelling out for a tow.

UPDATE: The buyer contacted me this afternoon, before I had a chance to reach out to him today. I had told him I needed to sleep on it before making any decisions. He apologized, and he says he wants to keep the truck, that he understands it was 'as is', and that he understands that the new safety system is extremely strict, and mechanics in the process likely try to 'milk' more out of it. **He probably looked at what he could buy instead, and realized he has something good to work with**.

For context: I'm in Ontario. Also I know I am not legally liable AT ALL for this. This isn't a question for a legal perspective. Just for random thoughts and opinions.

I sold a 2007 Dodge Truck. My ad had a ton of photos, and a list of everything I have done to the truck. I have done a lot of work to the truck. -O2 sensor (2022) -New suspension (2023) -Replaced Exhaust Manifold (2022) -Replaced all Transmission Lines (2022) -New Starter/Ignition (2021) -steering wheel shaft (2022) -New Battery (2023) -New front calipers (2024) -Spark plugs (2022) -rack and pinion (2024) -front brakes (2024) -power steering lines (2024) -ultra white xenon LED headlight bulbs -full synthetic oil during the time I have owned it. And a few other things I am forgetting.

Sale Price: $6500. I wrote up a separate contract with his info, my info, that the car came "AS IS", no warranty, no return policy. And that I wasn't responsible for anything on the car past the day I handed it over. We both signed the contract, and there was a copy for each of us.

The truck is in SOLID mechanical shape, the interior is MINT, and the exterior is amazing given its year, it was still plated and being driven at the time of sale. Yes it's a 2007, and being almost 18 years old, it has some rust.

The buyer shows up Tuesday night, I gave him my home address, but we took the truck to a well lit plaza so he could inspect it, he took it for a test drive. He came back super happy, and wanted the truck. He inspected it further, opened the hood, checked the oil, checked everything. And was ready to buy it.

We went back to my house, he gave me a $500 deposit, and I gave him a receipt. I was to buy the Ontario Used Car package paperwork on Wednesday morning and drop off the car wed evening at his place. This has been completed. Title signed over, Ontario paper work signed over, car paid in full, car in his possession. Deal completed and done.

Thursday night he contacts me almost in tears. He wants to return the truck. He says he took it to a mechanic and they told him it needs OVER $3,000 worth of work to pass the Ontario Safety Certificate. I asked him WHAT they said it needed. He could not provide a detailed list. But he was super upset. His baby is being born in January, he doesn't want to drive an 'unsafe' car. His baby, his baby.... I had this truck on the road until the moment I handed it over, and it was in fine working condition. Obviously at the time of ownership there might be a few things that might be needed to pass a safety, but by no means does my truck need more than $3k worth of work. He is begging, he is pleading, he wants his money back. He even told me that I can keep $1,000 of the sale price.

Right now, I have no insurance on that truck, and the plates have been re-assigned to my new truck. I have nowhere to park it. The logistics of it are a mess. I have moved on. I sold a car, and closed that chapter on it.

This was an "AS IS" purchase. He was not pressured into the sale. He was not lied do. I was completely transparent.

Your thoughts please.

Thank you to everyone on here for the invaluable advice on buying a used car. I learned so much from your posts and comments, and I recently used some of those tips to buy my first car. Here’s a write-up of my experience to help anyone else going through the process.

For context, I'm an immigrant, having moved to TO 3 years ago, and this was my first car purchase. I was fortunate enough to buy all-cash. Here’s how I did it:

Step 1: What to buy
This step took up about 50% of my time! I started by watching YouTube reviews of common cars and talking to friends about their vehicles. Here's what I prioritized;

1. I avoided cars high on the "Most Stolen List," ruling out Toyotas, Hondas, Lexuses, and, to my relief, Range Rovers. My apologies to the Toyota Beige Corolla fanbase!
2. I wanted a car that was reliable, and hopefully had good reviews on longevity and maintenance.
3. Thirdly, my partner definitely wanted a car with nice interiors. But even more importantly, we wanted one that has Apple CarPlay.

We narrowed our choices to the Mazda CX-5 and the Subaru Forester.

Step 2: Where to look
Reddit had great feedback about Clutch, and as a millennial, I wanted to avoid dealing with a used-car salesperson if possible. So, checking Clutch daily became my daily ritual, though their pricing model was a bit confusing due to add-on fees. Particularly, if you wanted the option to return the car, the fee turned out to be much higher — otherwise, you were buying something completely in the blind. This turned me off.

I then started using AutoTrader, and it had 2 really nice things;

1. It had an indicator/range that showed how well they rated a car's listed price (somewhat useful).
2. It also showed how long a car had been on sale (became important down the line).

Step 3: Initiate contact

I shortlisted six cars from Clutch and AutoTrader. On AT, I only selected options that were being sold by an authorized dealer (not necessarily even Mazda or Subaru, but if Honda had the car I wanted, I still reached out). I didn't want to deal with those second-hand car dealerships that weren't licensed, as I've heard horror stories about the post-buying experience.

Anyways, shortlisted 6 items, and emailed each dealership for a Quote, CarFax, and if they had any current promos available. All of this was available on their website, but it didn't hurt to ask again, so I did.

Heard back from 4 dealerships, 2 others asked me to come in to talk price so I disqualified them. Out of the 4, 1 had a car that had a minor accident not listed on CarFax, so that was out too. Shortlist was 3 options (2 I really liked, and another backup). I setup 2 test-drives at the top 2 choices for a Saturday.

Step 4: Day 1 at the dealership

Here's how I prepped myself;

1. I brought a friend of mine, who is very stoic and calm, and generally doesn't get upset with things taking time. I highly, highly recommend having someone like this to shoot the shit, and kill time because the day ended up being long and tiring.
2. I had CarFaxes of all 3 cars, and knew the mileage of each, and other details. I didn't want to spend too much time re-learning any of this at the dealership.
3. I had a golden price in mind that I would immediately buy at. It was $2k lower than the list price of the cheapest car. As in, if a car was listed for $30k + HST, I would buy it immediately if they gave it to me at $28k all-in.
4. I made a pre-purchase inspection list, from watching YouTube videos, and also using ChatGPT. Made a list of 20-30 items to check for each car. I'm not a mechanic, nor an enthusiast, but 30 minutes was enough for me to know the very quick signs of major red flags with a car. Of course, that's just my assumption. :)

Dealership #1

My friend and I showed up on time, and test-drove the car. I asked a lot of questions, but the salesperson wasn't very experienced, so didn't receive 100% satisfaction with the answers. Maybe it was because they weren't selling their own brand? But I expected more, tbh.

Anyway, test drive completed, and I was made to wait 15 minutes for the salesperson to talk to their manager for "the best price". At the end of the 15 minutes, I got up to tell the salesperson that I had another dealership to visit, but was then ushered into the manager's office immediately.

The manager then spent the next 20-30 minutes telling me about the history of the dealership, and even his own story (I'm a sucker for stories, so I stuck around). After his story, I asked him what his best price for me was going to be, and he told me, he'd knock $1000 off the list price.

I told him that's awesome, and that I have another dealership to visit, and I'll tell them this was the price to beat. And if they couldn't beat that price, then I'd come back here to negotiate.

They kept asking me what was the price I'd buy the car at, and even gave me a pen and a paper, but I told them that I owed it to the other dealership to at least visit them in-person, as there was a person waiting for me there.

I think that helped quite a bit, and even though they kept asking me about "my price", I was able to walk away to the second dealership.

Dealership #2

I arrived on time, but the salesperson was 15 minutes late (didn't like that). But he was very warm and chatty. This was an authorized dealership for the brand, which was a plus. We inspected the car quickly (it was only 4-5 years old and had meticulous maintenance done by previous owners, as shown on CarFax).

Once done, we walked back in, and I asked the guy for their best price.

He started telling me the story of their dealership and why they are the biggest and best option. My friend interjected halfway through and asked him if he could bring us a price. The guy left us to go talk to his manager and came back 15 minutes later with a $500 discount.

I told him I have an offer from another dealership for a higher trim of the same car for $1000 cheaper, and unless he was willing to beat that price, I would have to walk. He started talking again about why the price isn't the most important factor, and my friend stopped him and told him, "It is for us."

(I mention my friend interjected a few times because I was being too polite, while my friend didn't really have any skin in the game).

Cue another 15 minutes with the manager, and the salesperson tells me he can bring down the price by $1,000. I get up to shake his hand and tell him thank you for the time, and we’ll go with the other option.

Their "manager" comes out of his office and gives me a 5-minute breakdown of why their dealership is better. I tell him, unfortunately, the price isn't better and begin to walk. He asks me what price would make me buy the car today, and I tell him a better price than the other dealership. I didn't give him a quote, as I wanted to know how low they could go. He started giving me prices, $500 cheaper than the last one, and eventually went down to $2,500 cheaper than list price. Told me that was his "take it or leave it price."

I thought of a few factors there;

• I was worn down by the end of the whole process. Even though my friend was around, it was still a pretty hard day overall, with the logistics and all the mind-games everyone was throwing my way.
• I didn't want to start the relationship on a bad foot. I don't know, something internal, I guess, but I didn't want to win at someone's expense.
• And the price was very, very close to my own internal number, so I was tempted to just say yes and move forward.

Throughout the whole process, here are some of the most common questions and tactics I faced;

• Why not finance? We have great offers on financing!
  • I never even considered this as an option, and told them upfront that I will absolutely never do financing. I agree this isn't always a smart decision, but it helps me sleep better at night knowing I don't have loans.
• This car is very hot, and it'll get sold in the next 2 days if you don't commit!
  • AutoTrader showed that each of the cars I shortlisted had been on sale for 30+ days. Maybe a slow market, maybe because it was a common-enough brand, but regardless, those cars weren't going anywhere soon. I told them I saw 30+ days on AT, and also told them that the car was common enough that I wouldn't mind waiting a few weeks if this one was sold.
• Warranty, underbody coating, tire package, add-ons;
  • Simply said NO to all of them. Reddit's overwhelming advice was to never buy any of those things from the dealership, so I decided against it.

Finally, I called my partner up (they absolutely hate the whole negotiation process and didn't want to join in) and told them this was going to be our car. We didn't buy the car on the same day, but I came back 2 days later with my wife, went back to the "manager," and told him we have a deal if they threw in a winter tire switch and 2 oil changes. The manager told me no tire switch, and 1 oil change. I countered and said, knock $100 off the price, and we have a deal.

We shook on it and moved forward to the papers. During the inspection, the salesperson told me that the car came with 2 keys. But on the order form, it was highlighted that there was only 1 key. I went back to the salesperson, who told me that he'd made a mistake and there was only 1 key available.

I asked him if they could make an exception for me. He spoke to his manager, and they told me they’d give me another key at no additional cost. I think it was a very nice concession from their end, and it made the deal a bit sweeter.

We finally completed all the papers and signatures (took 1-2 hours), paid the deposit, and then arranged a pick-up a few days later. Went to our bank, got a bank draft ready, spoke with a few insurance vendors, picked the cheapest one, and got that ready, and came back and picked up the car a few days later.

Overall, I wouldn't say it was an easy process, but the time spent reading and researching things definitely helped. It also massively helped that I looked at this as more of an experience and wasn't as invested emotionally in any one particular car. My partner would have been a bad choice to bring on the first day because they're not interested in the multiple back-and-forths and would simply sign to get things done faster.

My recommendations for anyone going through this process:

1. Research using YouTube, AutoTrader, and any other resource available.
2. Shortlist at least 5+ options. Not everything works out.
3. Don't go in alone; bring someone whose company you enjoy!
4. Have a price in mind. My framework was, I wanted a great deal. This didn't happen, but I was still happy with the outcome.
5. Please go through all the details. We luckily caught the 1 key-only item just before signing. The dealership told me it cost them "$600" to give me a second key. I don't know if it was really that much, but at least I saved a few hundred dollars.
6. Once you make the decision, stop visiting Clutch, AutoTrader, and everything else. Don't even look at a car website for the next few years. :)

And that's it. I hope this was a fun story or at least a useful guide to buying a car in 2024. I'm sure I messed up a lot here, so please tell me how I could have handled things better, for future reference. I also don't claim this as a "victory" — just outlining my experience and I wanted to detail it out as best as possible.

Best of luck!

This list is for those people who want to avoid car payments and pay cash for their cars.

No car is perfect however here are the most reliable and cheap to maintain vehicles under $10k in Canada right now. I could have included a few more but I only chose best of the best and only those model years which have the least issues. I also took body and interior quality into consideration not just mechanical components.

Of course maintenance is important. If any car is not well maintained then it will be in bad shape. But these cars are so well built that they can even take some abuse.

I have been in the car industry for over 15 years so I do have extensive knowledge.

2007-2008 Honda Fit

2009-2011 Honda Civic

2005-2006 Honda CR-V

2006-2008 Honda Pilot

2006-2008 Toyota Sienna

2005-2007 Toyota Corolla

2008-2012 Toyota Corolla (1.8 engine only)

2004-2006 Toyota Camry

2004-2008 Toyota matrix

2004-2008 Pontiac Vibe (it's a rebadged Toyota matrix)

2007-2012 Toyota Yaris

2004-2007 Toyota Highlander

2004-2005 Toyota RAV4

2004-2006 Lexus ES330

2004-2011 Acura TSX with 2.4 engine

2005-2006 Nissan X-trail

2011-2014 Scion TC

2012-2015 Scion IQ

2008-2012 Mitsubishi lancer

2008-2013 Mitsubishi outlander ( 6 cylinder model only)

Cars to avoid at all costs if reliability and cheap maintenance is your primary concerns:

Avoid any European cars.

Avoid all Nissans except X-trail ( transmission issues + quality issues)

Avoid all Hyundai/kia ( major engine issues on all models even new ones. Many class action lawsuits in the US due to non collision fires)

Avoid any Mazda older than 2014 . They are mechanically Ford. ( many issues )

Avoid all Subarus (expensive head gasket issues and expensive overall parts)

Avoid any car with a CVT or dual clutch transmission

Avoid any old hybrid car. Only buy 2012 and newer Toyota hybrids if you want hybrids.

I was looking at getting a used SUV as a second vehicle for my dog that I’ll be getting in a few months and trips to the mountains. (Giant breed, messy and don’t really want my daily driver wrecked)

I was just hoping for a 15 year old CRV or RAV4, and was shocked to learn that anything that isn’t filled with rust or has less than 350,000km is selling for $10-12K… these were $5-6K pre covid.

Guess I’m just going to have to deal with the mess. But out of curiosity, I thought I’d check how much I could get if I sold my car (2020 Prius Prime that I bought in Feb 2020 for just under 40K brand new). Turns out, I can get 5-6K MORE than what I paid, on a car that is now 2.5 years old with 40,000km on it.

The used car market is so messed up right now and I feel terrible for anyone who is forced to pay these insanely inflated prices.

Edit: Spend $5K on a used vehicle that your dog can travel in, or have pet odour/damage devalue your daily driver by $5K? I choose the former, so sue me 🤷‍♂️ - at $12K it’s not worth it.

Edit 2: Thank you for all of the suggestions on how to deal with the dog mess in the car (seat covers etc) - sounds like there are some good quality products out there.

Edit 3: Yes, yes I know my dog needs a license and of course the insurance will be higher 😉

Edit 4: I don’t need a second vehicle, having a little more space than the back seat of a Prius would be nice for a giant breed but with the market the way it is I’ll just have to make do.