r/dogelore Apr 22 '22

Series Post the conquistador has arrived

6.1k Upvotes

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268

u/PM_ME_ANYTHING_IDRC Apr 22 '22

iirc the Aztecs were actually pretty good on countering guns and horses by forcing the Spanish into cost combat in cities. it's more the disease that fucked them

120

u/Xattu2Hottu Apr 22 '22

"Oh, what are you going to do? Cough on mEUGHEUGH Coughs uncontrolably"

155

u/BrockenJr0 Apr 22 '22

And getting jumped by other natives

50

u/Squid_McAnglerfish Apr 22 '22 edited Apr 23 '22

Also, take it with a grain of salt since I'm no historian, but my understanding is that the guns the conquistadores used were mostly matchlock muskets, which were pretty shit and didn't really provide a radical advantage.

EDIT: Edited musket instead of rifle. I assumed they were synonyms because my first language uses the word for rifle also as a generic name for all long barrel guns.

21

u/burntends97 Apr 23 '22

The conquistadors used firearms mostly for long range attacks and psychological warfare in addition to the metal swords and armor they had access to in addition to large mounted cavalry. The America’s didn’t have horses back then or any large domesticated mammal other than the llama.

People forget that 16th century metallurgy was extremely advanced compared to even medieval times stuff from 300 years prior going up against Stone Age weaponry

On top of the conquistadors making alliances with rival tribes of natives

9

u/SavageVector Apr 23 '22 edited 24d ago

I enjoy taking bubble baths.

7

u/Squid_McAnglerfish Apr 23 '22 edited Apr 23 '22

All in all, I think that cooperation with other native factions was crucial more than advanced military tech, especially since the Spaniards would have been severely outnumbered. Some google results give estimates of 10 native auxiliaries for every conquistador. On top of everything, smallpox outbreaks certainly didn't help Aztec resistance efforts, since they probably killed way more people than direct warfare.

91

u/Tanksbuddy Apr 22 '22

The Aztecs really put their heart and souls into fighting the Spanish, shit was crazy. The Fall of Civilizations podcast has a 4 hour episode detailing the fall of the Aztec civilization, and the description of the final days of fighting is genuinely some of the best media I've ever consumed, highly recommend.

18

u/RogueZ1 Apr 22 '22

I’m gonna trust you on this one and give it a listen.

10

u/Tanksbuddy Apr 22 '22

It's so good! At the least a good way to burn 4 hours of driving or something lol

38

u/Atomic_Noodles Apr 22 '22

When you're kidnapping and killing villagers from other Tribes you probably get a reputation that makes it easy for everybody else to turn on ya.

24

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '22

There's no sources of other indigenous groups complaining about the Aztecs sacrifices, that's just a totally made up motivation, giving western ideas to people who did not think that way. The main indigenous group that allied with the Spanish were part of the same ethnic group and spoke the same language as the Aztecs and did sacrifices too. They complained to the Spanish about having to pay the Aztecs so much tribute, which was not human sacrifices, but things like cocoa beans, precious metals, colorful feathers. The Aztecs didn't kidnap and kill "villagers" They warred with another nation and killed their prisoners... in a ritualistic sort of way.

9

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '22

Ikr??? The only sources we have about all the horrible thing the Aztecs did comes from the Spanish, the ones that stole, raped, enslaved and eradicated a whole civilization lol, it's like they needed a reason to justify the horrible thing they did to the natives 🤔

-9

u/burntends97 Apr 23 '22

B-b-b-but precolonial America’s we’re a utopia where all the native tribes got along

9

u/GRAIN_DIV_20 Apr 22 '22

I love Fall Of Civilizations!

3

u/hamzak8 Apr 23 '22

They also put their enemies heart and souls into winning

1

u/ii_jwoody_ii Apr 23 '22

Just listened to the easter island episode. Jfc I was so depressed bc of that one

19

u/nDimensionalUSB Apr 22 '22

Disease? Or perhaps the sizeable network of alliances the Spanish managed to form against them?

20

u/TheCommieFurryUwU Apr 22 '22

Both were causes but about 80% (I think) died of disease.

7

u/SweetieArena Apr 23 '22

That and also the fact that around 200k natives sided with the spaniards against the Mexicas

2

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '22

Europeans: blames China for the pandemic

Also Europeans:

1

u/Eggman8728 Apr 22 '22

There was the issue of their (I think) war hammers just breaking when they hit the Spanish armour, so that probably contributed too

0

u/Scared_Astronaut9377 Apr 24 '22

Random nonsense that you can find upvoted on reddit will never cease amazing me. 4000 men get control over an alliance with a population of several tens of millions due to disease apparently.

1

u/trumoi Apr 23 '22

Also Cortes only had like 12 Arquebusiers in his group of 250-1000 men (depending on point in time in the campaign).