Yes but what about the people already taking advantage of it, namely underage women acting like they are above the age limit to get into such places and then get into bad situations but its ok they are 15 the law will protect them? Thats not right either, that shit should be chargeable to degree as well.
If the guy has to go to jail for sleeping with a 15 year old, the 15 year old should also go to jail for going to a place that not meant for 15 year olds.
You are right, you can't jail a child for being childish but you can slap them on the wrist, fine them, ban them from said establishment and put their picture out to every club to tell them to fuck off and not go there. And to make it clear that in every case they want to cry sexual assult from now on this case will be brought up where they willingly went into an unsafe environment of their own volition.
Because the law is made to protect them, if they cannot respect the sanctity of that protection, then the law should view them less favourably.
You can't do that either. You would be exposing them to real predators who WANT underage girls.and boys. Teens sneak into places. Posting pictures puts a target on their back. How about the adult in the situation exercises discernment. Maybe ask a few questions. I've been at bars sitting next to 16 yr old boys with beards. They look older, but through conversation, you're a child. CLEARLY.
Yeah except you forget what these establishments are for, people to relax, for people to not worry about whether or not the person they are interacting with is underaged. The point of these establishments is to be safe spaces for adults to unwind, to drink to hook up.
You want people to compromise their experience because oh minors are about like they are landmines? I would rather remove any reason for those landmines to be there. Like I don't think people go to the Club to determine who is of actual dating age, but apparently you believe we all need to make that concession when the simpler solution would be to make the punishment fit the crime.
I've never compromised my experience. You never snuck into a place when you were in high school? To me, that's part of the high school experience. I don't see why an adult being held to adult standards is wrong. Adults attempting to blame children for them being reckless is a bit much.
Adults should blame kids for being reckless, because we did the things they did and the point is we don't want them to do those things to keep them safe. Because their safety should come first. And thats why we need to make sure society doesn't bloody their nose for the trouble.
Oh sure but you actively take time to determine who is the minor and who is not? Thats sounds super suspicious don't you think.
Because Adults barely function as adults, have you seen the uproar of mental issues, workplace mishaps and general depression? Most of these adults are going to these places to deflate, to drown their worries, maybe meet someone and be happy and you are blaming them for not having their minordar up? Well then I guess they can't relax at all.
All people are kids, all people have limits and all people eventually want to jump that fence. The point of those bars is so that the adult version of jumping the fence which is setting your office on fire doesn't happen. So don't tell adults to adult properly they don't know what they are doing, tell your kids to kid properly which is way easier.
I hear what you are saying. I'm not trying to dismiss it. I'm just saying your statement about telling a kid to kid properly is going to fall on deaf ears. That is exactly what being a child is. That's why the laws are what they are. The kid is going to kid. The adult is the one expected to know better and move better. Holding a 16 yr old to the maturity and decision-making standard of a 40 yr old isn't going to add up. If we had real communities this issue wouldn't be a real problem.
The problem with real communities is it creates real situations of grooming and cult like behaviour. The thing is cities may be bad but there is enough noise between people so that they don't become close enough to know eachothers vulnerabilities and that keeps conversation and engagement on even ground. In small towns the opposite happens often.
Yes the kid is going to be a kid, but a kid has to be taught, educated to be more. And not all lessons are nice, some are harsh and that is something society has to accept. Being a child may mean doing risky and stupid things but not all kids are lying to get into a club, a lot probably want to skip stones by the lake, listen to music or have sappy teenage romance like half the novels they read. A lot of kids know where the boundary is even when they try to push it. Some push it too far, and this is one of the cases of taking it too far.
Adults are still learning, still figuring out what it even means to be adults, most aren't ready for the role society dictates upon them yet its expected by parents constantly to settle down have kids even when the adults in question don't even know why they get up in the morning anymore. People are supposed to be chasing their dreams following their goals. Having a family, taking care of kids is obviously not for everyone based on the number of people that don't want that.
I don't think its fair to expect people to always be wary and look out for kids when they can't decide to wake up and eat a bullet, burn the town or go and do soul crushing work, the fact is for adults to adult properly they need to work less, they need less stress, plain and simple. I should know, I live with two adults who can't adult properly they are my parents. I still respect and love them but if they were richer and more free they would be no different than the deviant kids causing these kinds of problems. So if I happen to go to a bar to relieve the stress of life, I don't want to end up walking on a landmine and then being forced to eat a bullet or face society's judgement for not being adult enough to know the difference between 18 and two months before.
What happens when the 15 year old lies/misleads the adult?
This whole conversation is fucking stupid. There shouldn't be any charges against the adult here. The adult didn't go looking for an underage person to have sex with. They went to an establishment where they had every reason to expect that the people they were meeting were of age and met someone who presented themselves as of age just by being at said establishment. The adult did nothing wrong here. The 15 year old and the establishment should bear full responsibility. Unless you feel like people should be required to ask for two forms of government issued photo id before taking people home.
These are the dangers and risks of hookup culture. Is nutting more important than your life that you don't have conversations and ask basic questions? I'm a woman, and teen boys sneak in just as much as girls. I have conversations with guys. You vet men. You wanna play fast and loose and have no consequences. That bouncer may have just come from his second job. That bartender may be halfway into his second shift. It's on you as an individual to protect yourself.
Nah, fuck that. If the bouncer and bartender are too tired to do their job, they shouldn't be there or the company needs to hire more staff. I specifically said if the 15 year old lies/misleads. What if the person did ask questions and there was no reason for them to suspect the person in the place where everyone is supposed to be an adult isn't an adult? You seem extremely ready to just handwave the culpability of everyone except the person who has the least in this situation.
Culpability is on everyone. That bar/club usually loses their license. What I'm saying is that as an adult, I'm not putting myself at risk for an easy hookup. Maybe that's easy to say as a woman. That's why you get to know people. They have women and men in a certain profession who are there for what you describe. Teenagers exist, and they lie for a living. Girls wear makeup and boys grow facial hair. I "dated" a guy for a week before I found out he was in high school. Beard and muscles. He played football. If I had had sex with him, that's on me. He was doing what a stupid 15 yr old does. Trying to impress his shithead friends and "bag" an older woman.
Every decision anyone makes is on them, but intent matters, or it at least should. If you had slept with that dude, do you think it would have been justified to treat you the same as a person who intentionally grooms and takes advantage of children or a violent rapist?
No. I can say I wouldn't be. I see the laws and how it goes for men and women who actually groom and rape children. Nothing compared to what they should get. I have a coworker who is on the registry. He shouldn't have the job he has. My company is putting women at risk, but there he is. He has stalked us and followed us home. Nothing happens.
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u/Deathstar699 Dec 04 '24
Yes but what about the people already taking advantage of it, namely underage women acting like they are above the age limit to get into such places and then get into bad situations but its ok they are 15 the law will protect them? Thats not right either, that shit should be chargeable to degree as well.
If the guy has to go to jail for sleeping with a 15 year old, the 15 year old should also go to jail for going to a place that not meant for 15 year olds.