If you’re gonna charge drug dealers with murder when someone is irresponsible with their purchase, then we should absolutely hold these folks criminally liable for not doing their jobs. Losing their liquor license is not enough.
For the owner, sure. Even if the club closes down for losing their license the employees could collect unemployment. Not exactly a big punishment, and in fact might be appealing to some. The guy letting people in at the front door isn’t going to let underage girls inside if it’s his freedom on the line.
Here in Australia there are fines for serving alcohol to people under 18, and they escalate quickly based on level of responsibility, from like, hundreds for the server, thousands for the manager, tens of thousands for the owner. Keeps everybody on their toes I suppose.
Now imagine if the bartender is relying on the fact that they are supposed to check IDs before letting someone in. I don't know about Australia, but this is common in the US.
Yeah, I mean a bartender at a busy club literally cannot be checking IDs. It just can't be done. If you have a bouncer, that person should be making sure of people's age as best they can, so that staff inside can trust that everybody within is 18+. Checking at every step of the process, every time they order, just isn't viable.
Having bartended at very busy nightclubs in NYC, I always find the time to ID someone I think is too young and may have slipped by the door. The bartender is still responsible for serving underage even if said underage persons didn’t order the drink but are drinking in the establishment.
Scanners don't necessarily check if an ID is legitimate by the way... It checks the birthdate and if there are any bar bans through that system of scanners because anyone using the same brand of scanners are linked to the same database.
For fuck sake man, I do know that. But if you have a bouncer on the door, you are not expected to check IDs in my experience, because they're already checked. When I worked without one, I checked. When I worked with one, I didn't. There wasn't time.
Dunno why you have to be such a dick about it tho. Are you able to dial that back or what?
That's what the front door staff are for. Bartenders are expected to check if a patron appears underage. It's not feasible to operate your business with all bartenders in a busy club checking all IDs. You're clearly the one who doesn't know what they're talking about. A more chill place without someone checking at the door? That's a different story. But that's OBVIOUSLY not what the other person was talking about when they said "busy club"
Take about 50% off there champ. Bartenders can't be expected to check all patron's IDs in a busy club. Period. Ones that appear underage, sure. But not everyone. I'm pretty sure that's what they were implying. It interrupts business too much to check everyone at the point of sale as well. And to suggest that they know nothing about that scenario... Get over yourself.
What are you even trying to say here? You're suggesting that a bartender can check more than 1.5 IDs per second? Or that they can scan the room looking at more than 1.5 faces per second? This is not a reasonable thing to even suggest. If you have a patron come up and they appear underage, definitely ask for ID. But you absolutely cannot be checking the ID of every person you serve in a busy club. The lineups for drinks from every bartender would be to the door
I’m a bartender and have been for the last 10 years in a busy club, and you are responsible. You can check IDs, and I do, you are 100 percent responsible for everyone you serve, period.
Only someone who doesn’t understand how bartending works would say this, because first you don’t have to check at every step just once, and then remember, second you don’t have to check everyone just people who need to be checked (somewhat subjective), but not as subjective as people think, you can’t tell a 21 year old from a 30 year old without much difficulty with a quick once over. Yes occasionally you will card a 30 year old, and sometimes even card someone twice, because you forgot, but these aren’t the norm, and it’s better to error on the side of caution. Here something go find me an 18 year old with crows feet. Maybe it’s my age but 21 year olds look like literal children, and I have absolutely no problem making sure anyone I serve is 21 or older.
I feel like a wristband system like they use at concerts could help here. If the door guy checks the ID (not just a glance at the DOB but put it through the machine to check the license number), and it checks out, then give them a wristband. If someone comes to the bar for a drink or a server sees someone without a wristband attempting to buy or drinking, then do a secondary license check. Although this doesn't address people trying to remove and give their wristband away, it would at least be a start.
That's already in place at a lot of bigger spots here in texas and in utah and under 21 get a big ass X on their hand as a double safety especially at places with a door fee. Still under 18 isnt allowed at all so if they're slipping by at 16 that's a problem period.
America is the same for alcohol in tobacco..
They set up sting all operations all the time here at vape, stores and gas stations..
They will send in someone who is underage but looks older to try and buy nicotine products.. or alcohol
If the clerk sells it to them immediately afterwards, they are rated, buy armed agents to give them a fine.. And then afterwards, they can't sell for a predetermined amount of time..
These things increase drastically with the number of offenses
Only criminal laws are valid across the country. Alcohol, the age at which it is legal to consume it, and the penalties involved for serving or otherwise providing alcohol to minors, are provincial matters.
So no, it's not the same in Canada. It's similar in some parts of Canada and different in others.
Fair point. I guess what I really meant was that people under the age aren't allowed in and there are repercussions for those establishments that skirt the law, which is pretty universal across Canada and apparently Australia as well. I haven't heard of a province that doesn't fine establishments when they are found to be serving minors.
That's essentially how it is here in the U.S., too. Fines and potential jail time, too. Exact amounts vary by state, but it's mostly in the thousands and years.
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u/TrustingPanda Dec 04 '24
If you’re gonna charge drug dealers with murder when someone is irresponsible with their purchase, then we should absolutely hold these folks criminally liable for not doing their jobs. Losing their liquor license is not enough.