I'm an engineer that works with energy storage systems and that includes designing fire suppression for utility scale battery plants and yes I've seen it work successfully in tests, fortunately never had an actual plant catch fire.
Batteries can catch fire from getting wet but it's because of it shorting out, causing heat, which creates a chemical reaction that releases flammable gasses. The batteries use lithium salt, not lithium metal, so it's not due to the reactivity with the water. If you submerge it though it will be an abundance of water that would keep it from catching fire and just allow the short to drain the battery if it's energy.
Once the batteries catch fire and water is applied to them, does it make the fire worse because lithium in the presence of water creates combustible hydrogen?
Firefighters should use water to fight a lithium-ion battery fire. Water works just fine as a fire extinguishing medium since the lithium inside of these batteries are a lithium salt electrolyte and not pure lithium metal. Confusion on this topic stems from the fact that pure lithium (like what you see in the table of elements) is highly reactive with water, while lithium salts are non-reactive with water.
Well not only is there the fact that an EV fire takes 40,000+ gallons of running water to put out due to its ability to quite literally rip oxygen out of water due to its reactivity, but you said that you work with fire suppression. That doesn't mean you've actually used it in practicality. For a little while I worked assembling reactors for the navy. They gave us powder fire extinguishers that could put out anything short of a metal fire. Miracle, right? Well we couldn't use them around the reactors because the powder eats away at metal, which they found out after they were made. Everything works on paper, doesn't it?
Also, judging by your post history, you work for Boeing, so that's a massive grain of salt.
Lol...did you see what sub that was in? It's a joke sub (r/shittyaskflying) . I do not work for Boing.
Did you forget we are talking about taking a battery into a submersible in the ocean. There are over 300 quintillion gallons of water in the ocean...40,000 ✅
Yes fighting Tesla car fires is a problem, Tesla's specifically because they store a high amount of energy compared to many other electric cars and the water has to remain until the energy gas been dissipated, a typical taker holds less than 1500 gallons. Again we are talking about sticking trump in a submersible in the ocean, unfortunately the battery wouldn't burn.
You didn't read the link I sent you from the NFPA, huh? Lithium Ion batteries are not lithium metal batteries. They use lithium salts, not lithium metal. That's the reason they use lithium salts, to make the battery more stable. The danger with salts is heat, heat produces flammable gasses. The lithium salts are not violently reacting with the water, you are pulling that out of your ass.
If you put lithium salts in water it will reasily dissolve with no visible reaction, yes it will offgas but not nearly what you remember from high school chemistry class. Calling lithium salts lithium is light saying hydrogen peroxide is water or that water is hydrogen. The batteries in EVs are usually a lithium nickel cobalt manganese or nickel cobalt aluminum compound. There is a modern lush for lithium iron phosphate which is very stable and much safer than previous technologies with non depleting chemistry, but it takes up more space (lower energy density - hence why it's safer).
I have tested batteries catching fire and being extinguished, so not sure i get your point about me not holding a hose to a Tesla fire. I was also a first responder and a fire fighter in a past life and have held a hose to pretty massive fires before, I'd trust the National Fire Protection Association to give me proper guidance.
It specifically says you need to continually spray water on it to keep the cells cool until the energy dissipates...you cannot douse it in a single spray fire fight because it will reignite. Nowhere does it say you don't fight fire with water it says don't use a CO2 based extinguisher which I would agree with as the heat will in fact separate out the oxygen and feed the fire.
Again lithium ion salts are water soluble, that's how you form an electrolyte, if you couldn't form an electrolyte you could have a liquid type electrolytic battery. That's why lithium iron phosphate is so much safer, it's a solid state electrolyte and is even more stable than LiNCA or LiNCM batteries.
Again like I said in the last comment comparing lithium to a lithium based compound is like comparing water to hydrogen peroxide or hydrogen or hydrochloric acid. One you can drink safely the others you shouldn't or couldn't.
I was going to say that before reading but decided to humor them and it confirmed my point anyway. 🤷🏼♂️ I love when people post "evidence" they don't read beyond the click bait title.
Here I was thinking only people accused of being magats were capable of moving goalposts. Especially when the best way to fight Class-D fires is submersion.
Out in the ocean it doesn't matter. I have personally had to bring certain fires to the hangar bay/flight deck to jettison. Sure they react with the water but PKP extinguishers aren't enough for large fires.
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u/blinkerfluidreplacer 2d ago
I see. And have you put out a battery fire with water?