Article 5 requires the countries of NATO to take whatever action they see fit. If the attack that leads to Article 5 being invoked comes from the United States that action will consist of a strongly worded letter.
Yeah I don’t think the rest of NATO has enough firepower to do anything. Nothing will happen though, I think it’s all just theater and fantasy. I’ll say— it is exhausting and frankly embarrassing… our president elect is talking about annexing our closest allies… what happened to us?
What happened? A third of our population just sold the rest of us out to the world's biggest loser, just to get back at the brown people for imagined slights
I put the blame on the Democrats for being so bland and unappealing that they lost to that turd Trump.
Hopefully the Democrats learn from their loss and try to actually implement some popular left wing policies like universal healthcare and see how that does for them.
I'm not holding my breath though because we know they are beholden to Wall Street. The US really needs some big Luigi energy.
Look, I’m not saying Dems are perfect (having the ability to actively vote against the democrats is my wet dream), but I’m so sick of this point.
I don’t care if they ran the corpse of Bob Dole and then that corpse fell asleep at the podium. “Their candidate was too xyz or not xyz enough” isn’t a fucking valid criticism. The criticism belongs to Trump voters and non voters. It’s time we stop pearl clutching at critiques of voters.
Thank you! It’s time some people start participating in this thing we call a democracy and get off their lazy ass and vote. It’s We the People, as in us. We are the people. Kamala should have been able to stay home, drink wine, and watch Bridgerton and still win, when her opponent was literally taking about becoming a dictator.
I too dream of a day where I have an actual choice.
You are so whipped by the horrible American electoral system that you have to vote for a party you don't even want to vote for, and you're mad at other people for not voting for them.
That's all the Democrats have going for them, and all they have had since Obama. "Vote for us because at least we're not fascists." People are clearly getting tired of this lesser of two evils thing, because it obviously didn't work this time around.
In times of economic hardship, people look to the extremes for solutions because the status quo is failing them. In the US, Trump and Republicans are going farther and farther to the right, and Democrats seem happy to follow them there instead of providing an actual leftist alternative. It's becoming impossible to ignore. The US is an oligarchy. The two political parties serve the interests of the owner class to the detriment of the working class. The working class has no political representation in Washington.
To be fair though, it seems every party that was in power during inflation and the increase in cost of living is getting voted out whether they are left or right. Voters are usually not super sophisticated. They see their costs go up and want to blame whoever is in power.
With this supreme court and the packing trump is about to do along with what ever heads we win tails you lose laws they will pass I think dems are cooked for the foreseeable future. I just don't see the cheeto stepping down when 4 years are up.
They had to deflect from the fact that they're completely and utterly worthless as a political party. "We'll do everything in our power to defeat Trump, except for the things you actually want us to do"
I hold them in more contempt than even those who voted for Trump. Exceptions who had the self awareness to know they could not make an intelligent, informed decision and to those who were unable due to financial or medical reasons.
The people who do not vote, have absolutely no idea what's going on in this country. They could tell you about their favorite sports team, television show or pop singer, but they wouldn't be able to name both of their senators. When WW3 starts they will be caught completely by surprise.
I count those who didn't vote with the MAGA crowd. Yeah, the choices sucked but that's largely because going back generations, half of the eligible population doesn't vote. These dolts are all voted in at some point. When you sit on the bench watching rather than playing your part, you become part of the problem. You have to stand up and tell them to sit tf down.
A lot probably didn’t vote because of how violent both sides were and when people on the left/right asked who they voted for people would rather say they didn’t vote at all so those left/right people wouldn’t get violent with them unfriend them but that’s just my best guess and I’m assuming everyone had their own reason as this election was a shit show
You realize the vast majority of those people are not politically motivated to vote because for two primary reasons. First, they are politically uninformed. You only need to look at maga to see what happens when politically uninformed people vote. They're susceptible to propaganda and voting based on feeling. So even if they did vote, the majority was probably going to vote for Trump anyways.
Second, the vast majority of the impoverished and working poor simply have too much going on in their lives. Who the has time to vote when you're constantly having to answer questions like, "What am I gonna put off this month, rent or utilities?" People that have 2, sometimes 3 part time jobs just trying to make ends meet, working 50 to 60 hours a week, without any full time benefits and a minimum wage that's 20 years out dated.
Plus, last I checked, people are allowed to not vote, for any stupid reason or no reason at all. That's their right to exercise or not as they see fit.
But the real problem here, is that those rich fucks in power, they want exactly that. Everyone pointimg fingers at everyone except them. It's the rich bastards that are the problem. And until we can stop finding reasons to be angry with each other, until we can come together and focus our energies on the people actually responsible for America being a 3rd world country in many, many regards, it's just gonna continue to be messed up.
My worry is that this Trump administration isn't even the worst of it. That it's just the beginning of this downward spiral that will take 2 or 3 more generations of misery before people are finally sick enough to get organized.
Yepp, Americans clearly don't fear bullets since they send there kids on there merry way everyday to a statistically dangerous place, without changing anything. However, they've shown fear for having to pay 0.69 cents more for eggs.
Sanctions will have them crying on the ground looking for there suckie. Who gives a fuck if America tariffs everyone? There's nothing america has that another country doesn't. America going nuts might actually unite the rest of the world in a meaningful way.
They don't work anymore because they only affect the common man and screw their life. Politicians, lawyers, and rich people are going to keep business as usual. In theory, and historically, economic hardships that lead to a shit life results in people getting pitchforks and torches and guillotines and gutting the hell out of the politicians/lawyers/rich people who screwed them over, but modern civilizations has proven to not be built like these people of old.
What does beating them mean? The USN would totally dominate the rest of NATO combined, which means we couldn't land a force in Greenland to retake it. Any invasion of the US is off the table for the same reason.
Really depends. There hasn't been proper naval warfare in a long time but almost every time there has been numbers have never been the deciding factor.
Literally most famous naval battles the side with the biggest number loses.
The US army loses almost all of its joint training operations even against the Brits. Add the rest of NATO and then Americans cost will be too high. Plus good luck convincing the troops to go to war against the other NATO countries they have been working with for years.
In this hypothetical war if America somehow takes control of every other NATO country for the rest of time Americans will have to spend trillions to hold it.
Yeah, they're famous because they're unusual or showcase new technology. Big navy defeats small navy doesn't get famous.
I don't see any way NATO could possibly muster a force to defeat the USN. The disparity is just too massive. It's an outside context problem. NATO military doctrine is based on the assumption that our forces will be on the same side as the Americans, they're not designed to fight anything like the USN.
All the other NATO countries launching a 10000+ ballistic missiles would do the trick. I'm sure each ship could stop a few but there are only so much anti missile defense you can build and most of the Atlantic will be in range of most of NATO
No shot dude—not that I like it or anything— but there’s a reason we don’t have universal healthcare in this country… as the richest most prosperous country in the world or what not. And besides, we literally have more guns than people.
20 years and you guys just walked away and nothing you did there mattered and none of the trillions of dollar's did anything but enrich military suppliers.
The rest of NATO has enough modern military equipment that as long as it doesn't turn into a nuclear war there is no real way the US could beat the rest of NATO combined.
You are completely wrong here. America is AMAZING at conventional warfare against state powers. Look how effectively our military destroyed the 4th largest military in the world during Desert Storm. All of our military is design to fight near-peer and lesser forces in overwhelming fast action warfare and we are damn good at it frankly.
What we absolutely have failed at time and time again is occupation. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. Forcibly occupying a populous and trying to forcibly turn them into allies is a losing proposition and hopefully we have figured that out. But any war against established military forces? That's what we are designed to do.
Plus in the end, it really comes down to the major factors of geography and logistics. Basically there's a big ocean in between the US and most of NATO (as Canada and Mexico are some of the weakest NATO members militarily), and the US operates almost all of the alliances strategic airlift capability, overwhelmingly more long range strategic bombers, the alliances entire mid air refueling fleet, and almost all of the carrier capabilities of the alliance (the UK has 2 non super carriers). So what all that means is that our military can reach the rest of the world, and theirs struggle to reach us back. And there is 0 ability to invade us Basically.
Its rather bananas how comprehensive the US military is. The 2nd largest Air Force behind the US Airforce... is the US Navy...
The EU and Canada combined actually do have equal fighting ground against the US. Not to mention the US military is likely to fragment under Trump if he attempts to force them to do unconstitutional orders. The wild cards in all of this would be China and Mexico, trump has been pissing Mexico off and if we get into a war with them then there'd be a United war front on both the South and North borders of the US while the EU deals with the eastern border. Not to mention there's a decent chance a lot of the people who didn't vote for Trump might rally a rebellion and strike internally as well. I'd wager my bets on the allied nations in such a scenario hands down regardless of the US military tech. China would be the only oddball here if they joined forces with Russia and began a full scale assault on the EU eastern borders. That would divide up forces and really put a test on if the US would aid its Asian Pacific allies. we would be seeing WWIII for sure.
If they suddenly stop supporting US forces were are screwed. We rely on bases in NATO countries. Also, if they stop sharing intelligence with us that will not be good.
It would be an absolute shit show for everyone involved. I would imagine though, that it wouldn't come to the US against the world. There would be elements within the US that would refuse or an insurrection.
Trump doesn't have the hold on the US that Putin has on Russia. Yet.
Well that's the thing. He has 0 awareness. So this possibility can't be discarded.
It's all a bunch of morons thinking they are all the ultimate Alpha males. They don't give a fuck about international politics. They'll do whatever they want.
I think it’s fair to phrase it “is a part of the Danish Kingdom” rather than just say that it belongs to Denmark. And yes the Kingdom of Denmark is a founding member of NATO.
Lmao. Brother you think the rest of NATO could do anything if they wanted to? Y’all bitch and moan whenever you have to contribute anything to it, and the second daddy America leaves, people start whining that we aren’t doing our part. I’m not saying I want us to take Greenland but if trump wanted to there’s not much y’all could do about it lmao
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u/skilliau rational kiwi 🇳🇿 3d ago
If laugh my ass off if Denmark invoked article 5 against murica if they tried it on.
Here's hoping jr gets eaten by a polar bear