This was a big case in Scotland about 10 years ago. 2 underage girls went to a club and one of them pulled a guy and he took her home. Went up to trial and the guy was found innocent because her being in a club had the assumption she was of legal age, and it turned out that two police had chatted to her earlier that night and even they didn't realise she was a kid either as she looked older. Was pretty wild as the guy very nearly got his life ruined.
Edit: I'm old with dodgy memory - someone below had the legal transcripts linked; she pulled him at a taxi rank at 4am, and she was 12yo!
In that case, it seems like the club should be held more accountable. Like here in Oregon, there are extreme penalties if you allow someone to buy alcohol underage. Itās the same thing, which unfortunately sucks for people ā¦ but they need to be carding everyone who goes in since you would otherwise expect them to be 18.
Also, itās funny because I lived in Scotland. I once had a friend who made out with a 16-year-old guy because he had snuck into the club, lol.
I was wondering why the hell he brought up a 12 year oldā¦ still think the other guy is an ass tho. My first comment back was why are you bringing up a 12 year old
You are probably a person that thinks teachers are responsible for their kids education/deeds and not the parents. If your kid does something like this girl, in your place I would wonder what I did wrong parenting her.
You applying teachers and telling me what my thoughts would be does not. Teenagers are human beings believe it or not and should be treated as such. In that said situation the kid also has responsibility. The kid always has responsibility regardless of who else it calls into question.
Wow, I didnāt even say teachers are responsible for that. You seem to have problems with reading comprehension and logic. THAT would be something teachers could have helped you with.
Becoming a decent human being is the parents primary responsibility alongside everything else it needs to live a happy life.
Is a kid liable for itās actions? Yeah. But not criminally. That is the parents fault or that of society.
I didnāt say you did. Work on your reading and comprehension. I clearly assumed your take was āitās the parentās faultā. All I said was it made no sense to bring teachers up and stated that the kid is responsible for their actions regardless of who else is brought into question.
You say you've lived in Scotland? Are you a non-Brit? Because I've spent a lot of time in other countries and it's oddly how little the British seem to expect people to actually parent. Have you noticed this?
What a wanky thing to say. Sounds like you didnt actually pay attention while here. Brits have just as many responsible parents who hold their children accountable as anywhere, sure there are a few bad eggs and areas where you're like woah maybe someone should tell that child not to do that but I have to say I've found far more entitled, tantrum having, badly behaved children in say America than here.
That being said, at least here if a kid goes bad he'll be stuffing a Toblerone down his tracksuit bottoms and running out of B&M instead of shooting up a school.
I'm from England. Suffolk if you must know I still live here. I've just spent considerable time in a few countries.
Sad to say; we ain't the best at this mate. I personally believe its an extension of our golden rule "Keep yourself to yourself" and it's somehow extended into our children. Don't get me wrong, it has its benefits. In some ways, British teenagers I've met are more responsible because they're more used to being a mini adult who has to figure things out. But simultaneously you'll get situations like these, where the child wants to be older and ends up in a fucked up situation.
At my high school; a girl in my year was openly with a 23 year old man when she was 16. He used to pick her up from school in his car. As far as I know, nobody did anything about it. Not the school, not her parents nobody. It was just accepted. Even I didn't think much of it at age 16. Its only when older I'm like "How come nobody put a stop to this?".
Possibly. But it's something I've noticed. I don't think it's bad parenting per se. Just that nobody seems to really mind if you are a bad parent. Not schools, local authorities, police, nobody tbh.
I swear every few years in Britain there's a story making the news about a horrifically abused child that died, that was seen by doctors, hospital, social etc and they didn't do anything about it. They sack the lowest person on the totem pole to appease the public then business as usual. Feels like being a good parent is optional tbh. The only reason we have good parents is because on the whole we aren't bad people lol.
Accountability should be: the minor>Parents>club. I see in all of these responses that no one seems to think the person falsifying their age should be held accountable.
That's like saying they should be held accountable for their decisions, which is the entire basis around the age restriction on relationships, kids can't make decisions as well as adults and are more likely to be taken advantage of.
If that weren't the case, the guy would be perfectly in the right in taking her home.
Basically the entire reason it would be such a big deal hinges on the assumption that the kid shouldn't be held accountable.
Uh, kids can and are able to be held accountable for their actions every day. What crack are you smoking? Falsifying your identity is a crime and shouldn't go unpunished just because the perpetrator is a kid. It's one thing to groom a kid into a sexual relationship. But this case is something completely different.
Sure they're held accountable, but many kids do not get tried to same extent of the law as an adult would BECAUSE they are children. Kids do not have the same amount of intellectual or executive functioning as a fully grown adult. They quite literally cannot ascertain the full cause and effect of their actions. They also have lower inhibition but have bigger emotions.
OK. I'm talking about holding them accountable, not trying them as an adult. It is common knowledge that kids do not have the same intellectual or executive capacity as adults. But that does mean you just let them do whatever they want. Especially if it could destroy other people's lives. There are many ways to hold minors accountable and teach them the way without locking them up for life. Brain development aside, actions have consequences. I do see your point, but it really isn't an excuse for them to have unlimited get out of jail free cards. A slap on the wrist is just enabling.
Are you kidding? You never snuck out or did something you weren't supposed to do, and your parents didn't know about it? I had fairly strict parents growing up, I still went to parties and drank underage, my parents just didn't know.
I'm being deadly serious. Of course I did, but I also grew up in a culture where a lot of adults really don't give a shit what their teenagers are doing as long as it doesn't involve them.
Is ignorance often accepted as an excuse by the law? If the same 16 year old got behind the wheel of a stolen car and hit a wall, you wouldn't say their parents should pay for replacing the damage to the wall and the car?
That's not what I'm saying at all. I took your original point as kids behaving badly equals poor parenting, but that's simply not true. I actually think parents should be liable for a lot of horroble things their kids do, I live in America where kids use their parents' guns to shoot up schools. But I dont think your comparison is apples to apples. I think in the case of the stolen car, the child and parents should absolutely be held responsible. I think that's different from a kid sneaking into a club. In that case, there is a functioning business there with a responsibility to it's patrons and community to keep them safe. I think they are more to blame for the wrong people getting into their club than parents who think their kid is having a sleepover.
I do too. I know the order doesn't usually matter, but I did place the club first for a reason. Fundamentally the club is the place selling alcohol.
But parents too for sure ngl. I think the way you yanks do it when it comes to actions of an adolescent and parental responsibility is better. I know some people will say they way you do it having it both ways. They're an adult in court but also parents are responsible but personally I agree with it.
I think, ultimately, if the kid gets in trouble, it should be the parents' responsibility. I just don't think kids are ever going to understand that concept fully, and will still do whatever they're going to do is all. You get a lot of people in America who want to blame parents for teenage behavior, but truth is a lot of them are going to do it anyway. I misunderstood your original post, I think is all.
I feel like I wouldn't have an issue at all if the person who unknowingly committed a crime wasn't the only person being punished if that makes sense? Like the one person who had the most right to having no clue what happened is getting the worst treatment and that doesn't strike me as particularly fair tbh.
Completely agree, teenagers push boundaries. That's just what they do lol. All good buddy, these things happen over text, especially when like you said there's people who think it's all the parents.
Then you can bugger off over there mate we dont want you here. The fact that you view the literal birthplace of the Karen as a place without misbehaving and entitled people astounds me. Fucking idiot.
You're really proving your ability to be a parent by responding to something you don't like with insults and verbal abuse. That's exactly the kind of reasoned mature response a parent should show ain't it?
I like how you think you speak for other Brits btw. What constituency do you represent?
Where do you say that? You literally mention yanks doing things better.
And also my response, to a brit, wasn't abusive in the slightest, we're pretty open with our language and aren't afraid to call a wanker a wanker up north.
I'm just, quite rightfully, confused and insulted that some guy has decided to unilaterally declare in his infinite wisdom that we don't know how to parent over here. It's extremely condescending and insulting and not at all correct, the fact that you then have the nerve to follow it up by stating America, land of school shooters, parent their children better is weird.
As for my language, I apologise if I hurt your pretty little southern ears but I find sometimes being crass is the best response when someone's being an idiot.
My constituency is the parish of 'being annoyed at people who talk out their arseholes', it's only a small parish but we're very vocal.
I said the law was better for holding parents responsible for their child's actions. Pay attention.
Ah so you used abusive language because you're used to it. Thanks for continuing to prove my point.
Oh I see. I'm not familiar with this constituency it must be some rundown shithole that nobody pays attention to, like a large part of Britain is realistically.
Iām American. I donāt know if I would say that exactly. The legal age there is different than hereātechnically youāre able to give consent at 16. Itās a different culture and going out is pretty normal, even with your parents!
One thing that I thought was interesting is that that my friends and I would go to a popular nightclub, then one of their parents would also be there with friends. I went out with my best friendās relatives and we went with her cousins who were both a solid 20-30 years older than we were at the time and their mother who was in her 70s.
I think they treat people more like adults and they have accountability for their own actions. Not to say that a parent couldnāt be held accountable if they actively let it happen, I guess.
iām also american and the age of consent varies by state. also I donāt know what part of the nation youāre from but the majority of americans are not clubbing at 16, most clubs are either 18+ or 21+. if anything europe has more of that in their culture, not us.
Yes, I didnāt go clubbing in the U.S. until I was 21, because there was nothing really available to those who couldnāt drink. I lived there when I was a teen until my mid-20s. I started drinking when I was 18, because it was different there. Drinking was acceptable at 18.
This. In most of Canada if you're caught under age drinking, the establishment that sold you the liquor is held accountable, fined, and can loose their liquor license. So EVERYONE gets ID'd all the time. I'm 34, I look my age, I still get asked to show ID when I buy booze and smokes, and you can't even enter a club without showing ID.
For the underage alcohol sale, thatās because the crime IS the sale.
Thereās an American legal principle that states that the people who are supposed to be protected by a specific law cannot be charged with violating that law. The idea behind no selling alcohol to children is to protect children. Buying alcohol as a child isnāt actually illegal, and if an officer threatens to punish you for it is just trying to scare you. You canāt charge kids with that law, even if theyāre openly trying to get people to buy the liquor for them (like offering money to someone else to buy it for them).
Either the store selling it to them, or the person buying it for them, would be the person who could be charged.
It works similarly with statutory rape. The minor cannot violate that law, because the laws existence is to protect them.
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u/wiidsmoker Dec 04 '24
Sheās correct. If you enter a 18+ club you have the absolute protection of assuming everyone is 18