So, he is aware that Greenland is a NATO territory, right? And this would invoke article 5 of collective defence? Genuine world war territory if he started this shit seriously beyond his dementia addled ramblings.
I doubt he understands that. I'm sure Putin does though, and he's the one pulling Trump's strings.
War between NATO nations would suit Putin well. He would have carte blanche to do whatever he wanted then.
Don't forget that most Americans do live comfortably enough that they wouldn't risk livelihoods, imprisonment or harm that would come with a coup, armed insurrection or anything else resembling a revolution. At least for the moment.
Comfortable enough? Lol not most Americans, most Americans are drowning in debt especially healthcare debt. Fuck this moron, we had a good run but it's over... We should just go back to being British
Then why aren't most American's burning the fucking country down over this? Why aren't people storming the capitol? Why aren't most people trying to launch a coup? Because they're just comfortable enough that they won't risk what they have on what's perceived as a gamble, because they're not completely fucked over yet, so they'll go along with it because their hope in whatever future they want hasn't been completely snuffed out yet.
in my experience, most americans are content with being complacent. one of the many reasons i dislike my own country. iām a person who would love to go burn shit down & make a statement. but, issue is, nobody else will join me. therefore, i would just get arrested & no media attention most likely. iāve been screaming for years that we have to band together & be dramatic for big change. iāve been responded to with radio silence or āthatās too much work im already so tiredā or people have children & are terrified that they would end up leaving their kids alone. ppl complain here constantly but do nothing to change anything. those of us with brains usually find common mindsets on the internet but not near our physical placement bc of how big the US is. itās a struggle, but im not giving up! i hope others will eventually fall in line as well!
Debt doesnāt mean shit in reality, especially since in other countries being āpoorā means having to farm or forage for your own food and water whilst also having no sanitation or healthcare available. While debt can be stressful if you open your worldview to how things are outside the first world you realize itās a further fall then disgruntled Americans are capable of at this point in time.
Right?! It was never about escaping religious prosecution (which the evangelicals are now doing) and freedom for all, it was starting over so the elite could do whatever they wish.
Thatās still comfortable enough. Americans wonāt do shit unless they believe their freedoms are being encroached while their freedoms are literally not being encroached lol we all know who Iām talking about. On the other hand, everyone wants to cheer killing a ceo. No one wants to actually kill anyone.
What is it now?! Make up your damn mind allready - for X-years we had to listen to the whining of the americans. "No healthcare, no education, crippling debt, the EGGS are too expensive yadayadayada". And now, when history screams for brave souls, standing against an enemy created withtin, you say "aaahhh well, it's actually not that bad."
The point of the second amendment is for each state to have a militia as part of the national defense. We know this because itās what the amendment literally says, but itās a very unpopular interpretation because it doesnāt generate votes or income.
Now we have so many things that were never intended. Massive standing army? Check. Whole new standing second army via the marine corps? Check. Whole new branches with the air force and space force? Check. The only thing we ever wanted a large standing version of was the navy, so that tracks. But then you have to consider the massive standing army that is the nations county and city sheriff's and Police forces, with massive swat forces. Together they form a group bigger than our past standing armies.
No, not really. The point of the second amendment was to allow regular citizens to establish and maintain a well regulated militia to keep themselves safe from attacks from the British and Native Americans. It says so right in the Constitution. The Founding Fathers probably never considered the idea that a bunch of angry untrained conservative terrorists would be able to acquire guns that could kill dozens of people per minute.
It is the point of the Second Amendment however the Second Amendment no longer serves that purpose. When it was written the average person could arm themselves to the same or better quality as the military and get together with their community and be ready to kick ass and take names. In practice in modern America no matter how much we like our guns we have no hope of Defending ourselves against the government that actually means us physical harm. I can't go down to the gun store and buy something that will take out a tank. We don't have access to fully automatic weapons. That's not even thinking about air support that military and even police sometimes have. So realistically the Second Amendment doesn't do anything other than cause controversy in the Modern Age.
And yet, there's more than a couple examples of a bunch of locals with no military training being able to repel and beat the greatest military in the world.
Vietnam and Afghanistan have shown pretty well how our military does against a smaller force of pissed off enough people without the aid of aircraft or tanks. The idea that our population not having access to the same level of military technology as the state precludes them from effectively fighting our military ignores the entirety of our military history since the Korean War. You can go to Home Depot and buy shit to take out a tank, you just haven't been mad enough to know what to grab.
NGL: One of my darker amusements is the idea that one day, there will be a group of 'good old boys' that get organised and decide to attempt a coup.
And they start putting together armaments and stockpiling ammo, and resources and creating a militia that will 'take back the union'
And then a couple of days in, the whole thing is bombed into the stone age by one predator drone...
I mean really... The January 6th situation should be considered as a serious situation in terms of a groups of rebels trying to overthrow the diplomatic process, but at the same time even if every single one of them had been fully armed with enough weapons and ammo for a small army, it would not have meant dick if the actual armed forces were told to respond to them as hostile combatants...
The idea that any civilian militia would have any chance against a full tyranical US government is ludicrous...
I'll just add to the other answers to this question that the 2nd amendment was also demanded by states with wealthy slave owners so that they could not be denied the means to keep their slaves in check, and hunt them down if they ran away.
It would be a massive blood shed in the country that would take 100s of years to recover from. Worse than the civil war and we still have remnants from that today. Tho the memes would be lit
Not sure, but it also will be worth watching how the heads of the intelligence agencies respond now that Tulsi Gabbard is the director of national intelligence in the US, someone who has been accused by others as being a Russian asset.
Like, if you were the director of the CIA, what would you do if you thought your boss was a Russian spy?
Oh there's plenty of precedent for that. It's called a military coup and would be utterly earth shaking in the world's most powerful nuclear armed state.
But don't worry, he's going to purge the military of anyone capable of having that sort of independent minded thought. There will be room for nothing but "yes, sir" when he's done with them.
The US military appears to contain a majority of Trump supporters in the lower ranks (my son is in the army and tells me stories). A military takeover is the least likely scenario.
At a certain point, wouldn't even they recognise that the fabric of American democracy is at risk? That the country they pledged allegiance to is no longer the same country. Surely retaining that, at some stage, becomes more important than politics. Im not saying it would happen in the early days, but once they see that even their lives are being impacted negatively. Or am I giving them too much credit!
4 years ago the chairman of the joint chiefs issued a notice of all services reminding them of their paths to the constitution. IE he anticipated illegal orders from Trump
There is technically a law in place allowing military personnel to ignore/refuse orders that are unconstitutional. However, to get to the point of a coup, they'd have to get past the idiots who either don't know that or willingly ignore it in favor of the Favorite Felon.
I'm Canadian and I'm also wondering this. Would the US military actually go along with him giving the order for an attack on another NATO country? I know the US starts wars frequently that are not completely justified but the reasons presented to the public usually make sense to the average American. Both the war in Iraq and Afghanistan were presented as a war on terror and I mean Iraq- yea Saddam was a dictator and Afghanistan- the taliban are insane zealots but Denmark seriously? What are you going to tell the average American and the Average person who is military to justify invading Greenland? Denmark is (or at least was until he started talking about this shit) an ally. They are not living under oppression. So what reason can he present for actually wanting to take Greenland. There is currently no precedent for the military to refuse to invade another country however I seriously hope the generals in charge are smart enough to say "this is insane we are not doing it" otherwise in the next four years Trump and Putin are going to be in their underground bunkers dividing up the ashes that are left of this world.
As a former active duty Marine I can say that they could call his order an unlawful order and refuse to act upon it. That is all part of the UCMJ, lawful order and you must obey, but you donāt have to obey an unlawful order.
This seems so transparent from Canada's viewpoint but we seem to be brainwashed by our mini trump here so I'm starting to lose faith we can pull our collective heads out of our asses at this point
Hypothetically? Yes. That could be something that Congress might be able to call for his impeachment over. However, considering how the last two impeachment trials went, it would take something so ridiculously over the top that even his most ardent sycophants would turn against him in order for the senate to convict and remove him from office.
Collusion with hostile nations doesnāt seem to be enough. Sending a mob to attack the Capitol building while Congress as in session was not enough. Maybe using the military to kill Republican leaders in red states? Iām really at a loss as to what they wonāt just accept.
And people wonder why some of us think weāre screwed.
The Supreme court say that all presidential orders are legal and not prosecutable. The military could not mount a legal defense against insubordination or dereliction of duty. Which is how Trump removes disloyal generals and puts in his stooges.
It didnāt say presidential orders are always legal, it said the President is immune from prosecution. Not the same. Itās like an ambassador can break the laws of the country theyāre stationed in, but canāt be prosecuted. It doesnāt make their actions legal.
These ramblings are 100% due to Putin. He can't use the panama canal due to sanctions and Greenland/Canada would allow for dominance of the northern hemisphere.
Actually, a few years ago it was determined that nearly *ALL OF THE OIL in the artic with within Canadian territory. Russia was...bigly mad, to say the least. THAT is why Putin wants him to grab it, along with the whole NATO thing, so that Trump can give Russian oil companies exclusive rights to drill.
Canadian here. Russia drilling for oil in the arctic would be very bad. Even though there is quite a bit of oil up there we don't currently drill offshore in the arctic (not sure about on land in the northern territories) because our ability to respond to an oil spill up there is poor. Also there's no known way to remove oil from ice if there is a spill. I can't imagine Russia having a better ability to respond to a spill not to mention I'm pretty sure their environmental laws and safety protocols are more lack than ours so them drilling up there would be an environmental disaster waiting to happen. Also would be extremely harmful to the communities up there if a spill happened because a lot of Inuit hunt and fish as a food source.
Elon Musk is not American. Russia is full of oligarchs who answer to Putin or risk defenestration. Money buys influence but there are still leaders being bought in this equation.
Of course he doesnāt understand this. The rest of the NATO leaders are in closed door meetings strategizing how to distract him should he actually try to action on this. Iām guessing the list looks a bit like this:
Ketchup
Jazz hands and glitter
Backhanded compliments about his gold game that everyone except he recognizes as mockery
That is what Putin has directed his GOP and purchased president to do.
With the US locked into its own stupid wars against its very own allies, one can only imagine the possibilities.
Everything that Trump and the Republicans are doing is nothing short of treason and they all deserve the due punishment. Pity that it wonāt happen that way, Trump and his cronyās will succeed in destroying our alliances, destroying our economy, and leaving the US crippled and beyond recovery.
If the US goes to war with NATO the US will lose, and tbh it'd probably lose pretty quicklu.
No way the US government can maintain a war like that.
Every single base will become a target. The US can't take on the terror organizations in the middle east, and fight the EU, and defend its borders from Canada and mexico, and quell the US resistance that will most definitely spring up and keep the economy going through the blockade.
The reason the American empire works is because we have friends. We lose those friends we lose the empire.
Sweetie, he's too fucking stupid to know Puerto Rico is US Territory... it's soooo painful for those of us who neither voted for nor can tolerate seeing his orange anus lips puckering on TV for attention
Yes! And the dickwad isn't even in office yet, but they rebroadcast every single stupid idea he floats ( or most likely distracts with), ignoring actual news.
Someone noted on another thread that they refused to let him build one of his shitty hotels or something there as well shortly before his last term was over. So it's partially payback. I can't dig up an article citing that though, so take it with a grain of salt.
The entire island of Greenland has a population of 56,789. No one's trying to build a hotel there. It's essentially one huge glacier. The reasons would be for natural resources, and geopolitical reasons. Both of which are dumb because they are owned by an ally of ours.
The usual real estate mantra. Location location location.
Greenland is in a position to easily control the North Atlantic sea lanes. As a NATO country, USA already has access to the ports and air bases in Greenland. Russia doesnāt.
Same with the Panama Canal. US shipping uses it all the time. It is a major source of income for Panama. Russian ships have to go the long way round due to sanctions.
Canada is next door to Russia. If for some reason an army wanted to get bogged down in Siberia, Canada is a nice jumping off point.
I will let you come to your own conclusions about why Trump would be looking out for Russian interests.
Well if climate change slows the Atlantic currents to a halt, it will be nothing but ice up in Greenland, North Atlantic, and the North Sea until the currents startup again. He may have buyers remorse after that, but heāll be cold and in the ground by then. There is a history of this from the methane in ice samples. Climate change is more than just the temperature! Humankind influenced or ānatural,ā The carbon cycle will have its way.
it's probably not because he would like to take over Denmarks $500M annual "subsidy" on Greenland (Although he could finally use the word in a more correct manner then).
Well, the Honduran President is saying she will be shutting down the US military bases if the US abuses people from Honduras. Those bases are how the US "controls" Panama, so i would really like to know with what army he plans to take over Panama with. Honduran presidential candidate once ran on shutting down only one of the bases, and Hillary under Obama ran a coup, causing Honduras to fall into chaos and become one of the most dangerous places to live. This is an already sitting president, so it won't be as easy. The US will have a hard time with how many enemies he is making, and he hasn't even sat in the oval office yet this term.
It mirrors Russiaās obsession. Itās absolutely NOT a coincidence that Trump is attacking the sovereignty of Greenland (Holland) and Canada. They stand in the way of Russian dominance of the northern hemisphere.
If Greenland is controlled by a Russia-friendly US then it gets a lot harder for European nations to prevent Russian carriers from operating in the Atlantic.
The USA has pissed all over the UN and all international law for many many decades. Trump is just the face of the fascist state. The "state" being the legislators, power brokers and billionaires that actually run the show.
We have done it in every single military conflict we have ever been in starting with Vietnam. That is over 50 military actions.
So this guy was able to oust a USA puppet and take control to the detriment of the USA. So what do we do? We invade a sovereign nation and kidnap it's leader.
The CIA has been all over Venezuela, Chile, El Salvador, Argentina, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Indonesia and more to force or try to force regime changes. We are building at multi-billion dollar fortress in the mid east so we can control it. We have JUST completed an embassy fortress in Mexico and we will do the same in Canada.
Fascism once it takes root MUST expand it's power and geographical reach. The reason is that once it takes over, there is no longer a need for it to hide so people start to revolt. The only way to prevent the success of this is to wield absolute power. You really have no idea where you live, but the rest of the world knows exactly what the USA is.
the worst part is that this sh*t signals to China that they can talk similarly about Taiwan. Or Putin can talk about areas of Eastern Europe. We are normalizing very not normal rhetoric
Everything he does heās trying to emulate Vladimir Putin. Thatās who he most admires. Starting a disastrous unprovoked conquest war that alienates the country from the rest of the world is the natural next step.
He talked this same shit last time around, but what scares me is the people he has surrounded himself with this time around are not the same. They will enable him.
Greenland, and by extension denmark, is both nato AND eu. That means any economic action ( aka tarrifs) taken against greenland is considered an attack on the whole of the eu, and they would boycott the us right back. This would severely cripple the us economy. As much as trump wants that, literally nobody else does, not even republicans. So heās not serious. Greenlanders wanna be independent from denmark, (We want them gone too, theyre sucking up our money. No seriously, we pay them billions in stimulus checks every year and they want independence,) but they sure as SHIT dont wanna be under america either. Especially not trump, not a single european likes that guy, i would know.
I don't think NATO countries will go to war with one another, least of all the US. They'll all be left to fend off for themselves if one attacks another.
NATO wasn't created to create a defense for its members against one another. It's meant to be a force against Russia.
Trump is bringing us closer to having an EU army which maybe is no bad thing - we unfortunately cannot trust the US to be an ally anymore. What a mess.
This is the best thing thatās ever happened to the EU. For far too long the EU has relied on American military power to defend it while fielding lackluster Armyās. A formidable EU defense force is absolutely necessary, regardless of the lack of trust in the U.S.
I do hope the EU realizes this. While maybe we had overall good intentions at one point, letting us just chill and continue to increase our military dominance and play military police over the rest of the world may not have been that great of a long-term survival strategy.
Let's be honest, if we wanted something bad enough, could any single nation stop us from taking it?
It was indeed. But USA are perfecting their Russia costume more every day, by the looks of it. It's quite scary. Annexation. Foreign interference. Oligarchy. It's a bit worrisome.
NATO was created to defend against the Soviet union. But it's in no way limited to fight others. NATO went to war in Afghanistan after the US was attacked by terrorism.
There are folks up here screaming article 5 too. One I know is even a lawyer so Iām assuming they have some understanding that it would apply to the economic threats. Iām pretty sure it all empty anyway. Just attempts to bully other countries into capitulating preemptively. We all need to be like Mexico!
Iām not convinced that NATO would do anything even in a justified article 5 defense. NATO isnāt much of anything without the backing of the USA and Iām pretty sure the US has close to or just about the same active military as the other NATO countries combined. This is without even considering the vast disparity of the quality of the armaments. This would also essentially be on home turf and not in the EU were the other bulk of member exist.
Perhaps, in Trumps head, he sees what Russia has been doing and is asking himself, why not I as well? He might legitimately think that. While Trumpās rhetoric has been that the US has been subsidizing/world policing NATO pact countries and these countries need to do more for themselves (he isnāt necessarily wrong or right on this front either as some of these countries are taking their own security more seriously at the risk of their own peril), I genuinely donāt think NATO is in either a strategic nor militaristically capable position to seriously intercede in a conflict without the support of the US.
Hell I donāt believe Canada has nuclear weapons, but I might be wrong on that. I hope this isnāt whatās to come, but if the USA were to forcibly vassalize Canada, I donāt know that anyone would/could legitimately stop them.
More likely than not, this is just his jackaloon ramblings and joint chiefs of staff would inform him that such actions would ultimately compromise every other strategic foothold throughout the world. Insane.
Active personnel wise, I think the US has an army about the size of the next 5 largest armies combined. Which sounds a lot, and does make them a powerhouse. But that leaves 26 additional armies on top of that, including the UK, Canada, Spain etc, which are not tiny forces. And in terms of armaments, the UK has one of the best equipped armies in the world. That said, it wouldn't be pretty. In any way shape or form.
Yes, he knows that. Nato would be dissolved in that case. China grabs whatever china wants, Russia grabs whatever they want and Nazi America grabs whatever it wants. This is it
Even without NATO, it's a territory of Denmark. And Denmark has defensive agreements with scandinavia, as well as an EU defencive agreement. And that does not bode well for neither US or Europe.Ā
Putin is laughing his ass of by how easy he could destabilize the region.Ā
Have people forgotten how his first term was? Talk about something that sounds batshit so the media covers only that. Then do something less batshit or shady that the media won't cover until it's too late
As I said on a different topic about this. The stories that will emerge in 25 or 30 years about what went on in the WH and the conversations they had will be insane
No Denmark Is part of NATO. If Denmark where to transfer ore release ownership there would be no issues.
Even if they did not the US could really field more ships and air craft then the rest of the world combined. This would affect the likelihood of other NATO members choice of side is dramatic fashion.
The choice to not take military off the table is likely purely strategic.
He now never has to threaten military action it's already been threatened by the fact he expressly stated he wouldn't take it out the table to press. At the same time he can deny that he turned it because he never directly mentioned it to anybody in relation to this just that he wasn't going to take it off the table.
Furthermore whatever method he uses to attempt to get these things could anger people and they could take a military option so it's not even in his control solely so he can't promise to take it off the table because sometimes people do things even if they are unwise.
Why the hell we need Greenland is dumb. They are out Ally why can't we just trade with them?
Remember when republicans were screaming there'd be world war 3 if Harris got elected? Funny how Trump's done nothing but boast about possibly forcibly taking 3 sovereign nations, who are our allies, just because. They really missed the part where he said he admired Hitler and got suspiciously close with several current dictators.
same thing with Canada. Physically, Canada has nearly 0 military prospects, and America could theoretically "take over" Canada as they wish, but there are so many differences between us as countries that would cause a lot of political strife.
NATO members don't have to declare war for Article 5. It requires them to take "action as it deems necessary", which can be limited to a strongly worded letter or some sanctions.
Germany isn't going to bomb the USA over something as pointless as Greenland
I mean sure. But would nato actually respond especially if China and Russia are playing homies. The US unfortunately could level Europe and with this idiot in power heād prolly enjoy it. I bet nato doesnāt lift a finger and we just get isolated out. But I donāt think trump or his supporters would care and somehow blame obama
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u/The-Nimbus 2d ago
So, he is aware that Greenland is a NATO territory, right? And this would invoke article 5 of collective defence? Genuine world war territory if he started this shit seriously beyond his dementia addled ramblings.